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  1. #21
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Well it is war. You wouldn't send your generals on the frontlines. They're current planning and letting the "foot soliders" and the tailed beast fight Madara and see what they're dealing with since Madara has a Rinnegan, he might have different moves then what Nagato had...

  2. #22
    Prick List: Gaara, Bee Genesis 1.0's Avatar
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    Eh, it was decent for what it was. There were some high points, no surprise all of which included Madara, including the revelation that Pain was a mere pretender when it came to wielding the Rinnegan. He's already burst out with some high speed assault technique that we've never seen before and instead of needing the entire Akatsuki to extract 1 Bjuu at a time over several hours, he's doing it solo instantaneously.

    The most notable moment in the chapter for me was the panel which shows Madara licking his own blood, exulting in his renewed life, and then slowly coming back down to a more malicious reality and immediately getting back to work. THAT already separates him from Obito, Orochimaru, or a Kabuto. There is a very real sense of menace and supreme knowledge coming from this guy, the ideal final villain.

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  3. #23
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    Where did Sandaime go again, he keeps disappearing and then popping in when they need help
    A pie in the sky?

  4. #24
    GAI SENSEI 4 HOKAGE bankai's Avatar
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    madara is way to powerful, its kinda killing this manga for me. also didn't nagato have a real Rinnegan?
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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Logic View Post
    Well it is war. You wouldn't send your generals on the frontlines. They're current planning and letting the "foot soliders" and the tailed beast fight Madara and see what they're dealing with since Madara has a Rinnegan, he might have different moves then what Nagato had...
    The problem is, Madara is progressively growing stronger. First he got Hashirama's Sage power, then one Rinnegan, and now he even has the Demon statue. If they had all acted fast they probably could have kept Madara pinned down. He was getting pounded on by the tailed beasts but now he seems to be back at full health with the Rinnegan and Demon Statue to boost. If he gets the Jinnchuuriki they are all screwed. They need to stop him before he gets the tailed beasts. Every time he gets a tailed beast his power will jump up to another level. Also it will weaken the allies. Naruto and Bee are two of the strongest characters but their power relies heavily on their tailed beasts. If the allies lose them they are done. They had enough trouble handling Obito when he didn't even have all of the beasts. Obito was a joke compared to Madara, if Madara get the beasts the allies are done. Letting the tailed beasts isn't like letting the pawns fight first its like letting the Kings fight first, if they lose the Bijuu its as good as checkmate for Madara.

    I am really hoping we get to see the 4 Hokage prove their worth against Madara. They are probably the ones who have the best chance against him. If Tobirama can use his flying Thundergod to get around Madara he can probably free Hashirama. I really want to see more of what Hiruzen can do, he has taken a back seat during this whole battle. We have gotten to see all the other Hokages show more of their powers in this battle except for him. He was called the Professor because he was said to know all of the techniques in Konoha but so far he has hardly shown any techniques. In the Databook he is listed as the only character withe 5's in Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu. He should be a total beast and have incredible abilities rivaling Tobirama and Hashirama but so far he seems like a sideshow compared to them. Even Minato hasn't been as impressive as I would like, at least compared to Hashirama and Tobirama. I get that Minato's signature technique is the Flying Thundergod but I had really hoped that there was more to him than that. I mean even Naruto, who used to just spam Shadow clones and Rasengan, has finally evolved his skillset into several different techniques. Minato needs more than just Flying Thundergod and Rasengan. Hashirama and Tobirama have both shown a massive skillset. I want to see the other Hokages show that they are just as diverse.

    Naruto and Sasuke already had their moments to shine in this battle (Naruto especially). Now I really want to see what the old Hokages + the current Kages can do. I would really like to see Madara with both Rinnegan+Demon Statue and perhaps a few tailed beasts sealed against all of the Kages. It would actually be cool if Madara got Naruto's half of Kurama and Gyuki from Bee. That would take Naruto and Killerbee out of the fight. Killer Bee would probably die from the extraction, while Naruto would just be left extremely weakened. Then the Kages would have to go all out to turn it around. After the battle, Minato could give Naruto the Yin Half of Kurama. Naruto would then be extremely driven to get the Yang half of Kurama back and also to avenge Killer Bee. It would also be a great time for Sasuke and Orochimaru to abandon the allies adding more trouble for them. I still suspect Orochimaru and Sasuke both want to gain something from this battle but they are just waiting for the ideal time to act. If the Kages are all weakened and Madara is forced to flee they will have the opportunity to do what they want.

    It would be a really dramatic end to the World War Arc and it would really set the story up for its future conflicts. Naruto will have to learn new things from Yin Kurama and we will literally get to see a new side to the character. It may also help Naruto to develop his skills in ways that he didn't even know he could before. Also since Yin Kurama was sealed in Minato he might also be able to share more about Minato's abilities and history. Through the Yin Kurama, Minato could pass on a lot of important information to help Naruto continue his journey. I think learning about his ancestry is essential for Naruto to gain the skills he needs to stop Madara.

    Quote Originally Posted by bankai View Post
    madara is way to powerful, its kinda killing this manga for me. also didn't nagato have a real Rinnegan?
    Yes, but unlike Madara he didn't awaken it himself. Nagato was just given the Rinnegan so it makes sense that he probably wouldn't be able to use it quite as well as Madara can. Madara is the only person since Hagoromo, who actually awakened the Rinnegan. Also, Madara has Hashirama's cells and Sage energy to boost its power even more.

  6. #26
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    The Eyes are like keys that unlock there hidden power. To support this, Nagato Rinnegan was nerfed down, and was limited, and could only do a handful of moves. They weren't his original eyes, but they locked his hidden potential, and he was able to use some those moves, one eye doesn't do that, for example look at Kakashi and Obito they didn't use half the moves they were able to do like what Madara and Sasuke are able to do with their brother's eyes. I'm sure if Naruto had the Rinnegans his move list would be limited by his DNA. Madara overall DNA is still 60/40 I don't think Madara has a perfect ratio of DNA, and he can't do some of the things the sage did. We also don't know what the Kages are doing in the background... they might be making a trap for Madara, and come to the rescue of Naruto. I think its almost time for a one on one talk with the Sage, some how some way from ether the tailed beast or maybe Sasuke will reveal something about the sage also? Naruto needs a better understanding of the tailed beast, and maybe he'll have the answer to peace from the sage? All he's been doing is fighting and not thinking of a strategy to defeat Madara.

  7. #27
    Pervy Sage bluntman_exe's Avatar
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    I have this strange feeling that Obito will hold the key to defeating Madara. Firstly Obito's heart has been touched by Naruto's determination and now there is Naruto chakra share to overcome the chakra drain limitations of Kakashi using his mangekyo. I really do wanna see Obito give Kakashi his other eye so that Kakashi can awaken susano'o. I am dying to know what sort of Susano'o Obito's eyes could awaken given time space trickery is what his mangekyou jutsu are all about.

    If Kakashi can end up using Susano'o then maybe it could enable Naruto, the rest of the bijuu and Sasuke to do an amped up combined chakra gundam (hopefully one that resembles the sage of the six paths in some way). Madara's response may be to use his susano'o to strengthen gedo mazou.

  8. #28
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Artifice,

    I really think there is no chance that Kishimoto will end his Manga with Naruto sitting on the sidelines while the four Hokages take care of Madara. The Hokages are no longer relevant except for Hashirama and Minato.(I think).

    As I see it now, there is action (potentially) on two fronts:

    1) There is the Minato/Kakashi/Obito front
    2) The Madara/Hashirama/Tailled beast Front.

    The Main players on Front (1) is Obito. To my mind, there is a reason for Kishimoto Keeping Obito alive even now. There is a final act of Redemption that Obito must perform. I doubt that Obito can do anything to directly harm or oppose Madara in his current state. What he could do is maybe he could Reuse Rinne Tensei on Hashirama or Minato, or even (wild guess) Kushina, or He could use a technique on Naruto (and I suggested the DNA sword in the past).

    Hashirama revived may be able to delay or stall Madara, Minato Revived with Both arms could perhaps damage the Geddou Statue with Space-time techs, Kushina revived could use Uzumaki Sealing techniques, or somehow unleash new power in Naruto. However The one/ones who can actually finally stop Madara anymore would be Naruto and Sasuke combined, so whatever Obito does by way of a last dying effort, it must somehow finally end up enhancing Naruto's Uzumaki/Senju powers.

    In front (2), I believe that the Tailled beast will/must be captured with the exception of Naruto's Kurama. Madara will succeed or almost succeed in his objectives.

    In the end, Both Naruto and Sasuke must Upgrade themselves somehow, so that Naruto Surpasses Hashirama, while Sasuke Surpasses Madara. In my opinion, Naruto cannot rely on Kurama's power alone, he needs an Upgrade of his own Senju Power (and probably his Sage Mode too so that he would be able to gather sage energy while still moving, maybe this is the secrete of Senju Power).

    Sasuke too will need to be able to push his own Susanoo into a super sized Giant that's bigger and stronger than Madara's. My gut feeling is that If Madara and Hashirama had worked together, letting their Chakras Mingle, they would have awakened SO6P Mode as a combined pair. Madara and Hashirama failed to unite this was, and Madara's Solution of Stealing Hashirama's Power is an Abomination that is a failed / incomplete attempt at SO6P power.

    If Naruto and Sasuke can somehow supersede their Senju and Uchiha ancestors, all the way up to equaling the First and the Second sons of the Sage of Six Paths , then with The power/chakra of the tailed Beasts given to Naruto, the Two will be able to become a complete Joint SO6P with the power to change or do anything. This was forshadowed by Juubi's vision of the beasts inside Naruto

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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    @Artifice,

    I really think there is no chance that Kishimoto will end his Manga with Naruto sitting on the sidelines while the four Hokages take care of Madara. The Hokages are no longer relevant except for Hashirama and Minato.(I think).
    I definitely don't think the series will end with Naruto sitting on the sidelines, but I don't think the series will end with this fight either. I fully suspect the manga to continue for awhile after this battle. At the moment though, Naruto and Sasuke have already played their roles for the moment (they defeated Obito and freed the bijuu). I think the former Hokages still have a purpose before Edo Tensei is inevitably ended. This battle has shown us that while Naruto and Sasuke have grown a great deal they are still far from being on Madara's level. I think for now it would make sense to have the 4-Hokages drive Madara away and give Naruto and the rest of the allies an opportunity to regroup and discover new things about themselves.

    The Hokages being revived is an opportunity for them to give Naruto the protection and guidance he needs to continue on, to help him win this battle and prepare him for the road ahead. They are passing the torch.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    As I see it now, there is action (potentially) on two fronts:

    1) There is the Minato/Kakashi/Obito front
    2) The Madara/Hashirama/Tailled beast Front.
    What about the Kages? It would be unbelievable for them to just stand by. They have a role to play or there would be no reason for them to come back. The Kages have been sideling since they arrived on the sense and the Hokages have also been taking a back seat since Naruto and Sasuke fused their powers. I think it would make a lot of sense for The Hokages and Kages to unite against Madara or at least to do something of major significance. They are the ones who know the most about Madara, at this point they are the ones best suited to fighting him.

    What more can Naruto and Sasuke do at this point? They already showed their ultimate attack and Sasuke just got handled like a child. Naruto is also in serious danger of having Kurama ripped from him. Most of the allied forces are drained. The Kages are the only ones still at near full strength and since the old Hokages are Edo Tensei, they don't have to worry about running out of chakra.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    The Main players on Front (1) is Obito. To my mind, there is a reason for Kishimoto Keeping Obito alive even now. There is a final act of Redemption that Obito must perform. I doubt that Obito can do anything to directly harm or oppose Madara in his current state. What he could do is maybe he could Reuse Rinne Tensei on Hashirama or Minato, or even (wild guess) Kushina, or He could use a technique on Naruto (and I suggested the DNA sword in the past).
    I really don't see how he could use Rinne-tensei again, he is barely alive as it is. I agree that he will do something important but him resurrecting Minato, Hashirama or Kushina seems totally pointless to me. I don't see what that would add to the story and it seems totally implausible under the circumstances. I suspect he will do something to protect everyone, perhaps helping Kakashi perform a more powerful Kamui using both eyes or something. He could also use genjutsu to pass information on about Madara's plans or something along those lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Hashirama revived may be able to delay or stall Madara, Minato Revived with Both arms could perhaps damage the Geddou Statue with Space-time techs, Kushina revived could use Uzumaki Sealing techniques, or somehow unleash new power in Naruto. However The one/ones who can actually finally stop Madara anymore would be Naruto and Sasuke combined, so whatever Obito does by way of a last dying effort, it must somehow finally end up enhancing Naruto's Uzumaki/Senju powers.
    I don't think that Naruto and Sasuke are ready to take on Madara right now. Even at their best Naruto and Sasuke have only managed to create a power comparable to what Madara did many years ago. They had enough trouble handling Obito, Madara is on a different level.

    I think this fight has been a good test for Naruto and Sasuke but it is not the endgame yet, they aren't ready. I think that it would make much more sense for the Hokages to take the reigns this time and give Naruto the opportunity to prepare for the greater battle ahead.


    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    In front (2), I believe that the Tailled beast will/must be captured with the exception of Naruto's Kurama. Madara will succeed or almost succeed in his objectives.
    I disagree. I think Naruto's Kurama should be taken from him, I think that would be a great opportunity for his character to grow. So far Naruto has relied on Kurama in almost all of his major battles. I would be very interested to see Naruto be forced to learn to fight without Kurama and find a new path. Naruto must learn about his heritage and his own ability. I want to see how Naruto would cope without Kurama and see him develop in new ways as a result of that separation.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    In the end, Both Naruto and Sasuke must Upgrade themselves somehow, so that Naruto Surpasses Hashirama, while Sasuke Surpasses Madara. In my opinion, Naruto cannot rely on Kurama's power alone, he needs an Upgrade of his own Senju Power (and probably his Sage Mode too so that he would be able to gather sage energy while still moving, maybe this is the secrete of Senju Power).
    Eventually, but not during this battle. Naruto and Sasuke have already received massive upgrades. This battle has pushed them to new heights but Madara and Hashirama are still clearly far above them. This battle was a major test for both Naruto and Sasuke but it has also shown that they aren't ready to deal with Madara. They fought well but they both still have a lot of growing to do and that isn't going to happen overnight.

    I agree that Naruto needs to learn to fight without the Kyuubi and I think that is a good reason for Madara to take the Kyuubi from him. As much as Naruto has grown he still owes that vast majority of his power to the Kyuubi. He needs to learn more about himself and discover his own power. Madara was immensely powerful alone and he had the Kyuubi but he still couldn't beat Hashirama. As powerful as Kurama is, Madara and Hashirama are much more powerful. Naruto needs much more than just the Kurama if he is going to compete with Madara. Naruto has learned a lot about how to use Kurama's power, now I think its time for him to learn to fight without it. I think he also needs to learn about the Kyuubi's Yin half but at some point I definitely think he needs to learn to use his own power without the Kurama. Only then will he be able to reach his full potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Sasuke too will need to be able to push his own Susanoo into a super sized Giant that's bigger and stronger than Madara's. My gut feeling is that If Madara and Hashirama had worked together, letting their Chakras Mingle, they would have awakened SO6P Mode as a combined pair. Madara and Hashirama failed to unite this was, and Madara's Solution of Stealing Hashirama's Power is an Abomination that is a failed / incomplete attempt at SO6P power.
    Again, I can see that happen down the road but not now. They have already grown a lot during this war but to have them suddenly jump up to Madara and Hashirama's level during this battle just seems silly. They aren't there yet, they need time to develop more. Orochimaru said that Sasuke has the potential to surpass Madara but it wouldn't make any sense for that to happen now. At the moment Madara is on a completely different level from Sasuke, he tossed him aside like a child. Sasuke still needs more time and more experience to develop before he has any chance of matching Madara let alone surpassing him.

    As I mentioned I really don't see the series ending with this battle, there are way too many loose ends still.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    If Naruto and Sasuke can somehow supersede their Senju and Uchiha ancestors, all the way up to equaling the First and the Second sons of the Sage of Six Paths , then with The power/chakra of the tailed Beasts given to Naruto, the Two will be able to become a complete Joint SO6P with the power to change or do anything. This was forshadowed by Juubi's vision of the beasts inside Naruto
    Naruto and Sasuke may eventually merge their powers to match the Sage but I don't see how that could possibly happen anytime soon. Sasuke's motives are still very suspicious and their are obviously a lot of unresolved issues between them. As present we still don't even know that much about Naruto's heritage. We know he is an Uzumaki but other that high chakra levels and high healing factor he really doesn't have any abilities that relate to the Senju. We still don't even know what the connection between the Senju and Uzumaki is. Naruto and Sasuke were able to create a Kyuubi Susanoo fusion but so what? Madara created a Kyuubi Susanoo fusion way before he even awakened the Rinnegan. The gap between them is still massive and a gap like that doesn't just disappear. Only a deus ex machina could bring Naruto and Sasuke up to Madara's level during this battle.

    I have heard rumors that Naruto will end mid 2014 but I don't see how it could be done in a satisfying way at this point. I suspect those are old estimates. If this is the last battle that would mean that the series would be ending with many major loose ends.

  10. #30
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Could it be, maybe when this Arc ends, there might be a time skip again?

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