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  1. #31
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Jiraya's Body, is down on the ocean bottom and can't be retrieved, and if brought back to life he would be killed due to the pressure. I think Madara is about to pull a hidden move with his Rinnegan, and summon the tree Yamato is in, and with his body merge with Yamato's, and Yamato might have the Rinnegan in his Eye.

  2. #32
    Pervy Sage bluntman_exe's Avatar
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    Yeah if Madara doesn't pull something crazy out of his ass to throw the cat amongst the pigeons then I'll be surprised. I guess it would be reasonable of him to surmise that Obito had been defeated when Naruto, Sasuke and the gang horn in on the waltz he and Hashirama are currently engaged in. I would guess that is when he will put into motion the "holy shit, THAT was his back up plan !!"

  3. #33
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Logic View Post
    Jiraya's Body, is down on the ocean bottom and can't be retrieved, and if brought back to life he would be killed due to the pressure. I think Madara is about to pull a hidden move with his Rinnegan, and summon the tree Yamato is in, and with his body merge with Yamato's, and Yamato might have the Rinnegan in his Eye.

    Jiraiya's body probably doesn't even exist anymore, it has to have deomposed by now.

    So Two Things:

    1) In an extreme case, I believe the Rinnetensei can be used even if the Original Body is unavailable or completely destroyed. Madara of course planned to be revived even when his corpse is obviously no longer fresh or viable (He was an extremely old man who had died some 17-20 year ago). So using a clone or some otherwise empty body can be used.

    2) It is also possible that The SO6P's Original Izanagi jutsu, which was used to create from nothing, may also be employed to recreate/regenerate a body for the soul being brought back by use of the Rinnetensei.

    There may be another as yet unknown factor. Madara's soul had been in the Pure World for at least 17 yrs before his ET revival. The question is how does the Rinnetensei locate the specific soul amongst the millions of dead. No doubt the caster is focusing on the soul he wants, but is that the full story? Ironically, if we ever find the answers, those answers probably will not come from application to Madara. I don't think that Madara if he's revived, will be revived with Rinnetensei. I think he will just use a soul transfer jutsu into the Clone he made, unless Yamato is already occupying that body.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  4. #34
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ IIRC, when Nagato used Rinne tensei, he used it by utilizing the connection between the body and the soul (ET also utilizes this connection, by utilizing the target's DNA that seemingly contains some soul markers).

    At least by looking at this:
    Spoiler!

    one could say that it seems like the light from the Enma, enters the targets body (also reconstructing it, like it did with Pain bodies) and then pulls out the soul from another realm back into it (the body is used as a link between the realms and the target). Or it might be that the lights shot by Enma, are already the souls with some healing energy along with them entering the bodies.

    If Rinne tensei indeed works like that, then Madara would have been revived in the body that has connection with his soul, in other words, he would revive in the body where his Eyes are planted (and still fresh), in other words in the jutsu's caster - Nagato or Obito in that case.


    Also, another thing we still don't know is, how Kabuto managed to gain Madara's DNA in the first place ? If Madara never died at Vote, then that means the body in the grave is not him (seemingly that's how Oro and Kabuto mainly gained the DNA of the legendary ninja, by grave robbing and the like), so from where could he have taken the DNA ? It's hard to believe that Madara had left his old eyes in the village and it's even harder to believe that Kabuto had founded the place where Madara had died. This might actually mean that the man that died at Vote, might have really been in fact Madara, which would also explain how he was revived while looking like at the time of the Vote.
    Last edited by Zero; 11-18-2013 at 03:22 PM.



  5. #35
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I don't think Madara expected to be revived in any other body than his own, or at least a Body that he had prepared for himself. I say this because of the discussion he had about the secretes of his body

    Madara expected to be revived by Nagato, but it seems fairly certain that he expected to have a body as in his "golden age", This would rule out being resurrected into Obito or Nagato's body.

    Spoiler!


    Also it appears that he didn't die at the VOTE, Madara said it to Obito said it, and then Kabuto said it and Madara doesn't deny it:

    Spoiler!


    It is uncertain how the Rinnetensei works, perhaps it can completely recreate a totally destroyed body. We only know that it could be time/life force related (as per Nagato), more likely life force. Nagato would have been able to resurrect Madara (into his Golden Age type of Body) and he would have died doing it (as per Obito), but he chose to use all the life Force he had to spare on the Villagers without being able to go as far back as reviving Jiraiya.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #36
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ I actually meant that the host's body would have been recreated starting from and basing on the information in the eyes, into Madara's own body, in similar manner like ET does. Basically, Madara's cells would regrow out of his Rinnegan and take over the host, or something like that (something similar to what happened to Kabuto or Danzou perhaps ?). Or perhaps a new body would have been reconstructed form the eyes alone, seeing as Enma was capable of reconstructing even the totally destroyed bodies.

    Also, from the looks of it, both statements are true, Madara seems to have indeed died and survived at/the Vote, we just don't know what kind of trick he used to achieve that.

    I'm not sure in what form Madara was meant to be revived, but he certainly took a look at his body after hearing that ET was used:
    Spoiler!

    suggesting that there was a certain difference, even in appearance alone, between his ET revival and his planed revival (it's possible that he was actually looking at his chakra channels). Madara's wording is also a bit suspicious, since he sounds as if he had never seen ET (looks like it seems that ET was created after Vote).

    Another thing is that Madara is surprised that someone was even able to revive him in that kind of state:
    Spoiler!

    it certainly is strange that someone was able to revive a young Madara, even though he supposedly died as an old man. The Hashirama Cells also don't make you younger, this can be seen by the fact that even with Hashirama's cells, both Madara and Danzou, looked old at their times of death. This means that there is another reason to why Edodara looks so young... it actually seemed that he was indeed revived the same way as he was at Vote, but with added Hashirama cells, that allowed him to awaken the Rinnegan anew (since after activating it, it seems that he can't or at least doesn't turn them back to his other eyes). Of course, since it is the soul that stores the information and memories, he also remembers the times he was as an old man.

    Kabuto's words itself imply that he has found the Old Madara's body, hence why he was able to improve it beyond his "prime" - the time he had awakened the Rinnegan. Otherwise, how would Kabuto know that he had indeed improved him beyond his prime ? Then again, he answers that he doesn't know about his prime, which would imply that he was guessing from the very beginning. Later he confirms that in fact that he (Kabuto) and Orochimaru had to hypothesize about Madara's prime, which means that they were never able to get their hands on the Old Madara, otherwise they would know for sure... but then again, even if they had found the Old Madara's body, it no longer had the Rinnegan, so perhaps they couldn't confirm it, but by researching his body they might have found in him Hashirama's cells, that in the first place allowed them to hypothesize that Madara tried and achieved Rinnegan... but then again, he tries to confirm with Madara if he had or hadn't died at Vote, which again suggests that they haven't found his old body (maybe the young one)... but then, on what basis did they even make those hypothesizes ? Sounds pretty confusing one way or another . Well, I guess by mixing the Sharingan with Hashirama cells, they might have found, realized and discovered to what it might potentially lead to.



  7. #37
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    I'm wondering how long the Sage actually lived. The Sage was basically a Demi-God, upon the people. If Madara is anywhere close to his level, shouldn't he be able to use the Sage's Sword? I'm wondering because Obito couldn't or didn't use it, until he sealed the Juubi within him.

  8. #38
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @ Zero,

    Madara was commenting on being revived as an ET, and His Prime could not have been a reference to his age, otherwise Madara would not have responded by asking Kabuto how Kabuto who could not read the stone Tablet know his body's secrete (regarding his prime).

    @ purelogic,

    We have no indication that even the SO6P himself used the sword before he became the Juubi's Jinchuuriki.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  9. #39
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    I get your point, although its referenced to be his sword, it could be a special ability from the Juubi. Prime Madara didn't have the Rinnegan, and Madara was shown with the Rinnegan already on when talking to Kabuto... I wonder if it was a foreshadowing thing that might be his trump card.

  10. #40
    Shiniobi of the Kage Clan odramek's Avatar
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    Most likely Kabuto acquired Madara's DNA from the weapons the First used against him at the VOTE. He wanted Nagato's weapons in order to harvest J-man's DNA.
    I feel like this is the only way of reviving the younger version of Madara I propose, seeing that he died as an old man. Look at the third, he died old and was revived old, but that doesn't explain the First and Second, unless they died young as well. The age of person when their DNA is collected, dictates at what age they will get revived. That's my guess.

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