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  1. #1
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    The SO6P's Rinnegan was Juubi-like with Tomoes.

    We always knew that the Rinnegan comes from from Combining/mixing the Uchiha Mangekyou Sharingan (ultimate yin expression) with the Physical Energy of Senju/Younger son typified by Hashirama (Ultimate Yang expression), but this while TRUE, may not necessarily be all there is to the Rinnegan.

    I suspect that the SO6P May have had a more complete pair of Rinnegans Which Sported Superimposed Tomoes, just like the Juubi has.

    The Juubi from whom the SO6P derived his power, had both a Rinnegan and a 9 Tomoe Mangekyou superimposed, Yet The Sage seemingly, along with his descendants either had Sharingans or Rinnegans, but not both.

    Madara's acquisition of the Sage's power may be incomplete. I note that Madara was able to perform Sharingan techniques while Manifesting a Rinnegan, but he never Manifested Rinnegan Techniques while manifesting his Sharingan. An example was, he summoned his Susanoo while using his Rinnegan. This could be because he lacked a more complete rinnegan

    Spoiler!

    Madara with Rinnegan and Susanoo

    We are keenly aware that neither the descendants of the Younger Son, the Senjus, nor the Younger Son himself possessed Rinnegans, but the Younger Son did have a glowing Aura around him, which the Senjus (the greatest of who was Hashirama) didn't have. Also, note that the Younger Son Had this Aura, but the Sage himself did not, from the images we have seen of him thus far. The glowing Aura is a visual manifestation of overflowing life energy, produced in excess and leaking out. In theory the SO6P himself lacked a glowing Aura because his excess life energy was being used to support a Tomoe superimposed Rinnegan.

    So, the only example of a Mangekyou converting into Rinnegan we've seen thus far in Madara, converted ONLY, into a non-tomoe superimposed Rinnegan, and not into a combination Rinnegan and Sharingan, like the Juubi has. That Could be because The Senju Life energy from Hashirama (who had no visible Aura unlike his Ancestor, the Sage's Younger Son) could only advance the Mangekyou into a Tomoe-less Rinnegan. The question then is, What would happen if The Senju in question (supplying the Life energy to a Mangekyou) had had a Visible Aura?

    I have searched for a Good (and Canon) closeup image of the SO6P's eyes, but I haven't found one, I don't think Kishi has given us one yet, BUT we do have this:-

    Spoiler!

    Image behind SO6P

    Looking at the image behind the SO6P (top left), it is enlarged in the center panel, we've always assumed that the eye in the image was the Juubi's eye. But it seems to me that this could be a depiction of the SO6P's own eye. This is highly suggested by the presence of the same flames the sage had in his hands in the top left image, and the fact that this image shows a Rinnegan with only 6 superimposed Tommoes, where the Juubi has 9 Tomoes.

    If this is really a depiction of the SO6P's eye, then You will note that The SO6P may have had a Rinnegan With at least 6 Superimposed Tomoes, just like the Juubi has, excepting the Juubi has 9 tomoes.

    The above observations have led me to formulate a theory That the Original SO6P was a lot more Juubi-like than Madara as a Sage. The Difference is probably because Madara stole Hashirama's power (life energy), but Hashirama Senju, as phenomenally powerful life energy as he had, was still diluted down when compared with The SO6P and The Younger Son. It is also possible that the same is true of Uchiha Madara, that his Mangekyo is diluted downward compared to the Elder Son's eyes.

    It is again noteworthy that Sasuke has been pegged to have eyes that potentially will be able to surpass Madara's eyes, while Naruto also Has been Pegged to Surpass Hashirama. Naruto already glows with life energy like the Younger Son, When he is Using Kurama's power, such that Captain Yamato made mention of Naruto+Kyuubi's life energy activating his Mokuton.

    My guess then is that Kishimoto is headed toward a Joint ultimate SO6P in Naruto and Sasuke together. (I really don't care too much for this idea, but I doubt that Sasuke will poke his own eyes out and give them to Naruto, nor is it likely for Naruto to take Madara's Sharingans although at this point it is not too much to conceive of Obito offering them to Naruto). It seems to me to be where things are headed, unless something like the DNA sword mutates Naruto into the Sage.

    Bottomline Theory: (1) The real SO6P had Sharingans Imposed over Rinnegan, fundamentally because of greater life force than Senju Hashirama could provide to Madara. (2) Naruto or Naruto and Sasuke (together) potentially can equal or rival the Original Sage, and Manifest Juubi-like eyes.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  2. #2
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Well, I'm not sure of who is that "we" but the image behind the so6p is obviously not the Jyubi's eye (not enough megatamas). If you look at the whole pictrue, you might notice something different, mainly that the wall painting is actually a manifestation of the So6p itself of what he is made of. You see, the black eye frame, is the So6p's body, the glowing light is coming from the body (like from Naruto in KCM), on the body there are 6 megatamas linked together into a necklace (like So6p and Naruto have) and inside So6p, at the center, is chakra that is mixed from Spiritual and Physical energies and of course the rings of the Rinnegan are also visible.

    Here is the Jyubi eye:
    Spoiler!


    Here is So6p glowing (small panel ):
    Spoiler!


    Here is the greatest? official zoom in on So6p's eyes:
    Spoiler!



    While So6p's eyes might have been like a normal Rinnegan that were shown on other character and in legends, there seems to be some kind of secret to what happened with them right before his death, since his eyes are purposefully out of the panel, when he says his goodbye to the bijuu...



  3. #3
    Llord of the Sword... SilverCaliber's Avatar
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    I'm glad I stopped by and read this; I was running with the idea that Sasuke would give his eyes to Naruto before the current arch. After reading the last few chapters I began to also believe that they both would obtain the Rinningan while using their powers in the same empirical domain.
    -I never thought about it from the perspective of tomoes but it does in fact make sense from the data you presented.
    -What did bring about the re-insurgence of the thought was during the Naruto, Itachi and Nagato battle. Naruto questioned Nagato about the soul snatch ability as if he intended to use it. Kisi likes to hide references or maybe it's me that's feels he does (not sure) but Naruto learned long ago that you can't simply use someones jutsu; one must be compatible and capable.
    -I'm curious to see if this bears fruit similar to what we imagine...
    s/c

  4. #4
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    I've always wondered why Madara was able to use his eyes to control Kurama, could the Sage have used the Rinnegan, or a more enhance version of the Rinnegan to take control the Juubi and seal it within him?

  5. #5
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure Logic View Post
    I've always wondered why Madara was able to use his eyes to control Kurama, could the Sage have used the Rinnegan, or a more enhance version of the Rinnegan to take control the Juubi and seal it within him?
    I too wonder about Madara, but for a slightly different reason. Some theorists say that Madara's Sharingan are more of the Power/Malay type. He has never used Amaterasu as far as we know, and he hasn't used Tsukuyomi either.

    For madara (and Obito) to control Kurama, it could Just be that all Sharingans are gifted with Genjutsu and mind control even over a powerful tailed beat, or it could be that Madara has eye powers that were just not displayed, but they are there non-the-less.

    I always wondered why Madara did not hit Hashirama with Amaterasu, or even in this current fight, why has Sasuke not hit the Juubi Tree (of might) with Amaterasu, even though it is a stationary object made of wood.

    @ SilverCaliber

    I can easily imagine is for Sasuke and Naruto to merge their Susanoo+ Bijuu Mode again, but this time, instead of appearing like a 9Tailed Fox covered with Susanoo, The Susanoo+Bijuu Combo looks like a Giant SO6P with Tomoed Rinnegans.

    Who knows, this could easily just be a fancy fantasy of mine. However, I do envision an ending where Naruto (with Sasuke?) assumes the Full Power of the Original Sage and with it, Hits the RESET BUTTON so to speak, of Narutoverse. I am Biased I admit, and I want the Uchihas to be returned to life, Minato and Kushina too would be nice, but I sort of feel that the fate of the Uchihas must be redressed in order to establish fairness, balance, and Reconciliation between the Sons of the Sage of six paths, Where, where the original older son and younger son had failed to get along, leading to wars without end and tragedy, the new Older Son, and New Younger Son, have succeeded bringing about peace that is lasting.

    If the Uchiha Tribe and Senju can really get along, the other tribes will eventually follow, but the lives of the Uchiha should be resored as a start, in my opinion.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #6
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Paul this not a bad theory, I think it actually makes complete sense... I think we might of stumble across something I think the Rinnegan the Sage had is completely different the the one Madara awakened, if you look at the Sharingan, each user have different abilities, Obito can twist into a different dimension, and Sasuke has Amaterasu, but they all share common things between the Sharingan, I wonder if the same rule applies to the Rinnegan, if Madara's Rinnegan has completely different moves then the Sage, and a couple different changes to the look of the Rinnegan, as you can see when the Sharingan goes into the Mangekyou Sharingan.

  7. #7
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @ Purelogic,

    Thanks for your comments.

    it's always good to see others agreeing with ones views, but experience with Kishimoto has led me to be cautious. Anyway, you gotta wonder why the Juubi's Eye is completely different from the standard Madara Rinnegan, and you also have to wonder what the Rinnegan might have looked like if the Senju supplying the Life Energy behind it had had enough to generate an Aura, and the Uchiha behind it had had greater potential than MAdara.

    Guess we'll find out in the end if Kishimoto chooses to give Naruto/Sasuke a new Rinnegan.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  8. #8
    The one and only Pure Logic's Avatar
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    Your Welcome

    Personally i think Kishi is avoiding giving them new eyes, It's all in the DNA, and I wonder if Madara has a unbalance amount of DNA between the Senju and Uchiha, making the Rinnegan weaker. Also I wonder about how all the sages tools and other stuff are held within the Juubi. Its strange, I wonder if the Rinnegan was actually a gift or a curse from the Juubi. It doesn't make sense how Obito was able to get the DNA sword from the Juubi if it was the Sage's Tool, I'm starting to wonder if the fruit actually seals the Juubi inside you... and the Princess was actually prego or gotten prego, and the Juubi was sealed/reincarnated within the Baby Sage.

  9. #9
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    Great theory Paul!

    I wonder if Naruto will gain the sage eyes if he gets a fragment of one tail and 8 tails chakra?

  10. #10
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jest1081 View Post
    Great theory Paul!

    I wonder if Naruto will gain the sage eyes if he gets a fragment of one tail and 8 tails chakra?
    Thanks for the question. Knowing Kishimoto, I don't think it's gonna happen soon nor would it be expected. Kishi tends to RARELY choose the obvious path (which he did with Tobi=Obito), but if he does, he usually tweeks in some unexpected twist. For instance, may of us were waiting for Naruto to combine sage mode with Kyuubi Chakra, and when it finally happened, it was anti-climactic. There was very little boost to Naruto's overall power, and He didn't gain the rinnegan, which some had theorized.

    So, what I'm saying is that I don't expect the Rinnegan to pop out when/if Naruto gets chakra from all the Bijuus, This final power-up probably won't happen til Naruto faces Madara. Also I think some Uchiha input is neccessary. A senju won't gain the Rinnegan alone with some Uchiha Chakra to go with it.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

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