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  1. #11
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dabbido View Post
    Well I guess its a little biased since Toshiro is one of my fave characters... but I loved this chapter Was a bit too short though. Love how we can see the ice is thin as in, the ice itself really is weakened, but he came with an idea. Gotta love the interaction with Matsumoto. And I gotta say making a vacuum-whatever-ice is so badass, youd think the mohawk dude would win too easily given hes fire based, but he went to the point where he couldnt even melt it and got pierced with a "thin" ice. (I like how in the title it seemed to make a reference to it being weak and how that weak ice still pierced )

    But dont worry! the text below clearly stated it would get fiercer, as in the fight will continue.
    It's the other way around, he lost because he was an Fire-based user, well technically he didn't loose, he was simply hit once and that almost never works :p.

    You see, vacuum is created by eliminating/sucking out air and if there is no air, then there is also no oxygen and when there is no oxygen, the flame can't burn and dies. Additionally, the front wall only melting adds humidity and coolness to the air outside the wall, thus weakening the fire even before it dies out at the vacuum.

    Hitsugaya is not that awesome, since as mentioned, it is a "combination attack/technique", so basically he is unable to create it by himself. The combination is similar to creating window glass.

    Basically, Matsumoto creates (multiple) Ash Walls, then Hitsugaya freezes them and then Matsumoto draws back her Ash, which also suck away air in it, creating a vacuum (the holes through the ash comes back are probably closed then by Hitsugaya again).

    They used Science to outsmart a Quincy, right after the chapter in which Kurotsuchi said that they will showcase their intelligence :p.



  2. #12
    Senior Member Dabbido's Avatar
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    No I mean before the vacuum layered technique, it seemed it would be the other way around since fire melts ice.

    And agreed, I never said he did it by himself. It was because of Matsumotos cooperation. Heh true it was science not raw power, I sure hope the next fights involve their respective fuku-taichous. Kensei and Hisagi, Shinji and Momo, Rose and ... wait.. is Izuru even alive? XP

    Also you gotta love the mangastream version. Two things I noticed that made it better:

    -Buzz-B calling Hitsugaya "popsicle captain"
    -Toushiro mocking Buzz-B by saying he had to overcome his handicap (shikai) but to defend flames of that caliber it seems his worrying was for nothing xP

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    ^ No clues ? On the contrary. Every person who had their Bankai stolen hasn't used or wasn't able to use the power of their Shikai, or at the very least wasn't shown to be able to use it. Neither Byakuya, nor Yamamoto, or anyone else was shown to be able to use their Shikai after their Bankai was stolen. What's more, the Bankai means Full Release, while Shikai means Partial/Initial Release, thus by logic, one can no longer get a part of the cake, when the whole cake was taken. Not to mention that it was shown that Hitsugaya can no longer communicate with his Zan Spirit, since it was taken (the Bankai is a process of fully releasing that spirit into a sword, at least that's what it was supposed to be).
    Bankai and shikai are just names for the sword techniques and afair bankai also translates to final release. And not a single person has ever said that they couldn't use their shikai anylonger, no in fact it was never mentioned that the shikai would be stolen as well. It was never said shikai, never said zanpakuto powers, all abilities or something else, no just Bankai. Additionally Byakuya's Shikai is referenced by his enemy thus, by logic the shikai is still usable. But of course that could also be a "mistranslation". (Like that couldn't be use to justify almost everything)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Of course, the Zanpakutou teach Shinigami their Zan Techniques, plus they help using them and/or add their power when they are performed (the whole point of calling out the techniques names is more akin to a command to the Zan Spirit to aid their master, at least this explains why their techniques are stronger when they know/call out their names). It is quite possible that Shinigami that have learned their techniques can still use them, but since they are no longer supported by their Zan Spirits, their techniques are much weaker. An example of that, might have been when Ichigo used his Fullbring to cast Getsuga Tenshou, which was much weaker than that when he was aided by his sword. Another example of that might have been Ishin using Getsuga Tenshou with only his Asauchi a couple of times.
    It was never said one had to yell a techniqes power for it to become stronger, just that you had to know the name. Besides Ichigo's fullbring getsuga tenshou was a lot wekaer because his fullbring powers were a lot weaker than his shinigami powers.

    And just as I wrote last week, Hitsugaya still uses his shikai in the current chapte. It's even explicitely statet that (pretty much) the only difference between shikai and bankai is that the amount of Ice that can be created is a lot smaller than in bankai mode. So much about your "logic".

  4. #14
    Prick List: Gaara, Bee Genesis 1.0's Avatar
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    Omeda gets so much face time in every arc . Then again, he is a funny bastard and has an interesting character for such a weakling, the perfect foil for Soi Fon. Looks like he's going to get his ass kicked, to the point of near death, only for Soi Fon to arrive in time to save his ass.

    Toshiro, never been a HUGE fan but this release certainly brought me a hell of a lot closer to being one. His mind is surgical and he managed to hone his skills in combination with his Vice in such a way as to be able to counteract THIS Stern Ritter specifically. The strategy is genius and the power he's able to harness seems to be quite effective.

    +1 for Popsicle Captain

    "For I being a poor man, have only my dreams & I have spread them beneath your feet. Tread carefully, for you tread upon my dreams."

  5. #15
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    @Argonar, well, he didn't seem to have released his sword, there was no command given for it to activate it's Shikai powers as before, or at least it was never shown. He seem to simply use his ice powers through his Asuachi, perhaps in similar manner as Ishin was using Getsuga Tenshou. The sword became silent and the spirit inside does seems missing, so his power is reduced to what he can himself muster, which I did mention that was probably the case, after all his reiatsu didn't vanish completely, a Zan core was stolen, but it was still made from his reiatsu so he still should be able to use some of it's power. One could say that he can't use the full power of his Shikai anymore, since there is no longer a spirit inside that supports him in doing so.

    It's also worth to consider other things, like for example that a Shikai can be repaired by Shinigami himself, while Bankai can't. Perhaps recreating the powers of their Shikai is always within a Shinigami's capabilities, even if the Zan Spirit is missing, but the Bankai itself can't be replaced or repaired, only reforged.

    I'm actually wondering if Hitsugaya can still control the weather, which is one of Hyorinmaru's base ability that can be used both, in Shikai and Bankai.



  6. #16
    Senior Member Dabbido's Avatar
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    Something else that I found interesting (while not that amazing) is that this is one of the first Haineko techniques with a name or command "Haineko : HOUSE" as I see it. Its just the same basic thing she did , making it ashes and then make it back. But good to see it at least has a name xP I wonder how Haineko would look in Bankai . Its an interesting thought.

    Speaking of Bankai. What do you guys expect from Hisagis bankai? how do you expect it to look? what kind of abilities it will have ? Well the only thing I could assume right now its that it might have a reaper motif (well he already is, but you know what I mean) since kazeshini (shikai) had this sickle design and how the release command is "reap" not to mention that he dislikes it because it looks like something that reaps lives.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dabbido View Post
    Something else that I found interesting (while not that amazing) is that this is one of the first Haineko techniques with a name or command "Haineko : HOUSE" as I see it. Its just the same basic thing she did , making it ashes and then make it back. But good to see it at least has a name xP I wonder how Haineko would look in Bankai . Its an interesting thought.

    Speaking of Bankai. What do you guys expect from Hisagis bankai? how do you expect it to look? what kind of abilities it will have ? Well the only thing I could assume right now its that it might have a reaper motif (well he already is, but you know what I mean) since kazeshini (shikai) had this sickle design and how the release command is "reap" not to mention that he dislikes it because it looks like something that reaps lives.
    Hm ? What about Neko Rinbu (猫輪舞, Cat Round Dance), was that an anime thing only ?

    I'm pretty sure that "house" is simply a command to go back to the hilt (it probably was showed before).

    Well, her Shikai is similar to Senbonzakura, but less powerful, yet it can potentially be more technical and can be used in certain devastating ways that Senbonzakura couldn't be used, like forcing the enemy to inhale (or simply enter into the opponent through mouth or wounds ?) the ash and then cut opponent from the inside, at least this should be possible since it posses mist properties.

    I'm wondering if there is actually some significant to the fact that both Matsumoto and Gin had an Ash Zanpakutou. I'm starting to wonder if perhaps that wasn't a result of giving a part of his own soul to replace what Aizen took from her, or something along those lines (perhaps that is what inhibits her growth or something ?).


    Kazeshini (風死, Wind of Death) is supposedly, a wind type Zanpakutou, just like Kensei's, so they should be able to do some awesome combos. From the looks of it, Hisagi likes to use it as an all purpose-range weapon. Seeing as it is chined in Shikai, it might be unchained in Bankai, providing that the blades then are connected through wind currents, or wind threads (thus making it into "Unchained Wind of Death" as it is no longer chained and it's power no longer restricted, not to mention that it does sound fun ). Or it will simply be a gigantic scythe that cuts through dimensions, since it probably won't have any soul sucking powers (well they are souls anyway) . Then again, I have seen a few suggestions that it will be strictly physical type, something similar to what Ikakku has but quicker. Here is an example of that (by AvatarShawn9169):
    Spoiler!



  8. #18
    Senior Member Dabbido's Avatar
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    First of all sorry for the typos and bad spelling. I didnt notice and for some reason the edit button wouldnt work xP and yeah youre right forgot about Neko Rinbu. And youre right its possibly just a "come back" command. But its still cool. Actually havent noticed if she has said it before, Id have to check.

    Youre right maybe itll be more wind based, cause while its shikai still is, we didnt see him exactly doing "windy" attacks, just physical ones focused around its chains and extending it and strangling the opponent.

    That concept is quite awesome!!! I sure hope it ends up quite amazing. Also I want to see more of Tekken Tachikaze. Seemed to be quite powerful, but we didnt get to see it in action, besides a generic (I think) blast, wich looks more like a nuke Still disappointed that not only did they not show it, but that afterwards wonderweiss was seen with Yamamoto, implying Kensei lost (or wonderweiss escaped ) so this is Kubos chance to show it off. Might be one of my most anticipated battles!

  9. #19
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    So its just multiple walls of thin ice with a vacuum inside to snuff out the fire? Well then just keep firing attacks till all the walls melt down, shouldn't be that hard to beat him. But knowing Hitsugaya he probably already knows this will happen and is planning a counter to it, I wonder if he could make a ice shell around that guy and then vacuum him to death lol. I also want to see one of the Quincy use shadows to "teleport" around, just disappearing in the shadow and reappearing somewhere else, would be an amazing fight. If we go by the alphabet and determine strength for these guys that way then The Heat is only 8th in power. Hmmmmmmm

    Liked the chapter, hope we get to see more from Matsumoto though, maybe something incorporating how her shikai uses "ash" against a fire user, maybe even to smother his flames.

    And on Oomaeda. I always liked his potential but hated his cowardly attitude, I really hope he gets to redeem himself here since Soi Fon is not around and his little sister is right there for the killing, maybe even a bankai of his own...
    A pie in the sky?

  10. #20
    Senior Member Shock's Avatar
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    For some reason I can't edit but thought I should add this:

    Doesn't the vacuum ice thing remind anyone of Kekkaishi and when she wasn't strong enough with her kekkai she added layers to it to make it much stronger than before?
    A pie in the sky?

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