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  1. #31
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by SquadZero View Post
    That's not what what As Nodt said, he said, "There is no way you can win against your bankai using your shikai" right after Byakuya took a swing at him with his zanpakuto. Also given what we just saw, Hitsu using his zanpakuto's ice powers, clearly shows that they can still use their shikai. If they could not even use their shikai, then their zanpakutos would undoubtedly revert back into plain asauchi and look like every other generic zanpakuto that has not yet achieved shikai. That is clearly not the case looking at Byakuya's and Hitsu's zanpakutos.

    Saying Hitsu used some kind of ice element techinque on his own makes no sense either, it has always been shown that there are some zanpakuto that have elemental power, the zanpakutos were always the medium for those powers, not the shinigami themselves. And the zanpakuto were always in at least shikai.
    Isn't that a misconception coming from the Quincy ? Byakuya's Shikai looks exactly the same as his Asauchi (do they even know about Asauchi ?) when it doesn't do the flower attack (which Byakuya wasn't using after his Bankai was stolen, probably because he no longer could, after all the scattering attack did inflict damage at the beginning so using it again to check out why it did damage would have been very reasonable, which didn't happen).

    There is also a possibility that this is a mistranslation, because if you look at the panels, As Nodt might have been talking to Renji at one point, since in one translations he talks down to Byakuya that he couldn't win against his Bankai, then there is a pause the "..." and then he say with your Shikai and we see As Nodt turning towards Renji that is already in the air trying to use his Shikai to strike As Nodt, which As Nodt blocks with his arm on one side and Bankai on the other. He might even be saying that while looking at Renji's shadow:

    So basically, the conversation might have been like this:
    - As to Byakuya - you can't win against your own Bankai...
    - As to Renji - ...with just your Shikai...

    The way the Japanese language works, translating that part wrongly seems very probable. The pause in there does suggests a certain shift in conversation.

  2. #32
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Wth, it was never said that stealing the bankai would remove the shikai as well therefore until it is shown to be true so until it's shown to be true, I call this bogus.

    Also since Hitsugaya used his shikai already and we have that encounter with byakuya where his enemy talks about his shikai, I don' know why anyone could actually believe this to be true.

    I know these things can be explained (but so can many other, unlikely, theories) There is no need to look for explanations when not a single clue has been given that shikais are not available to those, who got their bankai stolen. But why make it simple if there's a complicated way to do it? ;-)

  3. #33
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    ^ No clues ? On the contrary. Every person who had their Bankai stolen hasn't used or wasn't able to use the power of their Shikai, or at the very least wasn't shown to be able to use it. Neither Byakuya, nor Yamamoto, or anyone else was shown to be able to use their Shikai after their Bankai was stolen. What's more, the Bankai means Full Release, while Shikai means Partial/Initial Release, thus by logic, one can no longer get a part of the cake, when the whole cake was taken. Not to mention that it was shown that Hitsugaya can no longer communicate with his Zan Spirit, since it was taken (the Bankai is a process of fully releasing that spirit into a sword, at least that's what it was supposed to be).

    Of course, the Zanpakutou teach Shinigami their Zan Techniques, plus they help using them and/or add their power when they are performed (the whole point of calling out the techniques names is more akin to a command to the Zan Spirit to aid their master, at least this explains why their techniques are stronger when they know/call out their names). It is quite possible that Shinigami that have learned their techniques can still use them, but since they are no longer supported by their Zan Spirits, their techniques are much weaker. An example of that, might have been when Ichigo used his Fullbring to cast Getsuga Tenshou, which was much weaker than that when he was aided by his sword. Another example of that might have been Ishin using Getsuga Tenshou with only his Asauchi a couple of times.

    The whole point pf Hitsugaya brushing upon his swordsmanship, might have been in order to better utilize the technique that he already know.

    Of course, for the time being it is still pretty much vague .

  4. #34
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Interesting notes from that Kubo blog thing:


    Mayuri's research will be the key to this arc.
    Specifically his study on bodies will be the main part of this arc.


    Grimmjow is alive and might become a friend
    This will be the last arc in Bleach
    The Soul King will be revealed

    Fire type

    What chakra type are you?

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