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Thread: Syria

  1. #11
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    Do you not foresee a wider spread of Chemical Warfare in the world?
    Well, no. The Nazi's had it during the last battles and did use it due to MAD. They knew the Allies had it and could unleash it on them. War sucks and the thing that keeps people most in line isn't war crime tribunals but use of equal or more force on the field.
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  2. #12
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Woofcat for decades the use of nerve agents and poison gas has been widely decried and I'd say suppressed by unanimous condemnation and human rights pressure. We many be entering a dangerous new era where a government may feel empowered to disregard human rights and commit attrocities, simply because the world community and world powers in particular will not unanimously face down and intimidate such acts.

    To give a pass to regimes who use such heinous mean to kill civilians, as opposed to soldiers is rather unfortunate.

    Let me be clear that in my opinion, it hasn't been the use of equal force that has deterred the kind of acts in Syria. For that you need two armies. What has dettered the use of Chemical and biological agents on civilians has been the threat of retaliation and/ or ostracization by the international community. Assad did not use chemical weapons on another army where they could retaliate with similar weaponry, he used it on civilians. Assuming this is in fact true, it is a shameful new era for countries worldwide to be so unconcerned.

    Even if military force is not used against Assad, he should at least be widely condemned and shunned.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Guy, (sorru for double post, the browser functions for editing aren't working).

    White phosphorus is an incendiary and a tracer that is used in ammunition. It is used against structures and equipment, and it makes no sense to use it against people. If they wanted to burn people they should just use petrol (gasoline), or a flame thrower like in WW2.

    There are sources on the internet that make claims that are illogical when examined.

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  4. #14
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    Paulbee I'm not saying I support them murdering people. It's just a argument of where is the US force attacking the North Korean labour camps. Where they jail people for three generations and starve them?

    Where was the US with Rwanda where they murdered literally a million people with machete's? The USA can't cry afoul when Syria kills 300~ people via a chemical attack (that hasn't been attributed to either Syrian forces or Rebels) and ignore the other massacres.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I agree with you Woofcat...You are right.

    This should not be a US effort alone, the world must come to its senses. The fact that China can support North Korea is nauseating, and the fact that it took a long time to act in Rwanda is appalling.

    It's just that I was hoping for a better world than the one my parents left behind, and now in spite of the Internet and connectivity, humans don't automatically agree that We all should work together and decry brutality to civilians at least.

    The One thing I hope this US outcry does is to Shine a spot light on Syria, so that even Syria puts its Chemical weapons away and doesn't use it again, and no other fools around the planet seek to emulate Assad.

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  6. #16
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    Paulbee, the problem with your statement is that we don't know who used the chemical weapons.

    If the rebels used them then they get to play the victim and count on Western support from USA / France etc. Russia recently submitted a 100 page report to the UN outlining that Assad did not use the weapons.

    What does Assad have to gain from the Chemical weapons. His ground forces have been making headway in pushing the Rebels back. Using a chemical weapon might win them a battle, however their foot solders were also in the region when it went off.

    The main problem is the West is charging Assad with something that he may not have done. What if this instead sets the tone that if you're revolting in a losing position just set of a canister of Sarin gas and the West will help you win?
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  7. #17
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I accept that it's difficult for us to know who actually released the Sarin gas, and I in my first post on the topic I made that clear by saying "If Assad really did...".

    Unfortunately, it now seems that The Riussians and The West are not going to cooperate to find out what actually happened in an objective way, this then forces interested persons/people to take sides. If I had to choose I guess I would be inclined to suspect Assad because he appears to have the resources and availability of the Sarin.

    As to what would be his motive, simple. He is send a message to Clans and tribes in Syria to observe closely what happens to those who defy him. Woofcat, there is precedence for this kind of message in the Middle east. Saddam Hussein did the same thing And people were asking the same type of questions back then too.

    Unfortunately Sarin Gas sends a very loud message. http://libcom.org/history/articles/h...-massacre-1988

    In the end I don't want to make this an endless, long drawn out argument because as you rightly said, we have no direct evidence of who undoubtedly did what. However, I do want to State that I find it rather unfortunate that in this modern era Some Governments are happily providing support for and having "Normal" relations with Regimes in Syria and North Korea.

    My feeling about Putin is that he may be letting his eagerness to prove Russian world power and Russian Importance as a relevant counter to the West inform how he conducts foreign policy. I've felt this about Putin long before this Sarin gas matter came up.

    Anyways, I've said my peace.....

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  8. #18
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    I don't mean to be an anti-war hippie because there are points that we need to draw the line at.

    The only reason I can come up with other than the chemical issue (which to me seems out of the blue) would be to have a clear vantage point to Iran if that time ever comes. But hey if Obama wants to be remembered as a president who tripled? the US debt and started more wars than we have ever been in our history..by all means go for it Mr.President.

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

  9. #19
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    Well, we'll see if Obama gets the Syrian strike to happen. I wager regardless of Congress it will occur. But only time will tell.
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