View Poll Results: Well, How did you like the new Chapter

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  • Bad, disappointing

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  • Fair, I've seen better

    4 25.00%
  • Good I liked it okay

    7 43.75%
  • Excellent, Loved it

    4 25.00%
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  1. #31
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Naruto can already take Kurama's full chakra and convert it into "Naruto" chakra. All he needs is Kurama's Yin so that he has an ample supply of "Yin Naruto chakra" to balance with his "Yang Naruto chakra" (the Yang he currently can convert from Kurama). Once he has the missing half of the Kyuubi, he can balance Kyuubi-level Yin, Yang, and Natural energy to create Kyuubi-level Sage Chakra. The reason he loses Sage Mode to enter his Chakra/Bijuu modes is because he's overloading on Yang and thus can't maintain Sage Mode's balance.

    This is something we've talked about here quite a few times, just repeating.
    I'm not sure if my graphic is your reference

    However, Kurama has had to Re-Mold Chakra Twice already in this battle. Question is how does he do it. Is it from him Consuming Natural Energy?

    If Naruto is continuously feeding Kurama Natural Energy, while Naruto Moves around, and Kurama is taking the excess Natural Energy so that Naruto does not turn into a stone frog, then The Two Symbiotically can be a lot stronger that Either Can Be alone.

    That's the Idea. This may be how Naruto can become nearly as strong as the original SO6P, at least stronger than Juubito.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  2. #32
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    My stance is that they don't really need to feed each other chakra beyond Naruto converting Kurama's chakra to his own upon entering KCM2 / Bijuu Mode. After that, Naruto just enters Sage Mode as usual, except his "base" power is actually equivalent to Kurama's. Kurama himself would play no part in the process; Naruto wouldn't need Kurama's help to absorb/balance out excess Natural Energy, because Naruto is doing the same thing he always does with Sage Mode, except with a much higher chakra pool, and thus greater potential for Natural Energy intake.

    It all depends on how it really works when Naruto converts Kurama's chakra to his own. The only time he's done it, it was for the purpose of sharing his chakra with other ninjas.

    However, I believe Sage/Kyuubi Mode is, in the end, the same sort of symbiotic relationship you've described; both become stronger than they could be on their own. Kurama cannot enter Sage Mode, but through Naruto he can, and it would increase Kurama's power to become on par with Juubito (potentially).

  3. #33
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    My stance is that they don't really need to feed each other chakra beyond Naruto converting Kurama's chakra to his own upon entering KCM2 / Bijuu Mode. After that, Naruto just enters Sage Mode as usual, except his "base" power is actually equivalent to Kurama's. Kurama himself would play no part in the process; Naruto wouldn't need Kurama's help to absorb/balance out excess Natural Energy, because Naruto is doing the same thing he always does with Sage Mode, except with a much higher chakra pool, and thus greater potential for Natural Energy intake.

    It all depends on how it really works when Naruto converts Kurama's chakra to his own. The only time he's done it, it was for the purpose of sharing his chakra with other ninjas.

    However, I believe Sage/Kyuubi Mode is, in the end, the same sort of symbiotic relationship you've described; both become stronger than they could be on their own. Kurama cannot enter Sage Mode, but through Naruto he can, and it would increase Kurama's power to become on par with Juubito (potentially).
    This last Chapter Showed the Importance of Natural Energy. Famous, Naruto's strongest Attack is his FRS, but if he fires off an FRS with just regular Chakra, Juubito would simply nullify it, and Naruto can only do 2 Sagemode FRS, and then he's all out of Sage Mode.

    I had been wondering how Naruto could remain in Sage Mode just like Hashirama seems to be able to do (maybe even better than Hashirama), and this idea is what I came up with.

    Question is, what is Kurama Doing when he sits with his hands together, what is he gathering? Well it seems it has to be Natural Energy since he's the "offspring" of the Juubi. So then how do we prevent him from running out of Chakra at the wrong time just as we've seen Naruto running out of Sage Mode energy?

    We don't really know yet how Tailed beasts replenish their Chakra. Humans eat Food (in the final analysis). Tailed beasts must be nourished by something, else Kurama would have been able to do a Bijuu Mode with Naruto anytime it was needed, instead of making Naruto wait.

    It just seems like a way to kill two Stones with One Bird (ha ha lol!).
    Last edited by paulbee; 08-21-2013 at 02:23 AM.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  4. #34
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Well, the Sage Mode FRS limitation is in part due to his need to have multiple clones prepared to refresh Sage Mode. If he didn't need those clones prepared (ie, wasn't splitting his chakra from the get-go), he could fire off a few more FRS (6-8). But even with 2 Sage Mode clones prepped, and 2 more needed to complete the FRS, he could still fire off 2 during the Pain arc. Thus, saying he can ONLY fire off 2 FRS is a misconception of Sage Mode in general, applying additional limitations that are not actually the full extent of Sage Mode, but rather a limitation of a long-duration Sage Mode at that point in time.

    I'm still not sure what the significance of this limitation is when one considers the amount of Sage Chakra that Naruto can prepare when he has access to Kurama (and can convert that chakra flawlessly to his own prior to entering Sage Mode). Given that potential, Naruto could probably fire off as many FRS as he wants in his Sage Mode, and won't even need clones to do so (because he'll also have access to extra Kurama limbs (as he would in Chakra Mode / Bijuu Mode). Naruto's Bijuu Sage Mode will have the best of both worlds.

  5. #35
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I guess, my impression is that Sage Mode is limited by Naruto's Maximum Carrying Capacity which is proportional to his overall chakra level. When he is using Kurama's Chakra he certainly does have access to a HUGE pool of Chakra courtesy of Kurama, but Sage Energy seems to be something that has a finite value to what a person can contain.

    Kishi will have to clarify this later, but I am willing to entertain that my conception could be in error.

    It feels like some plot hole is happening here. If the Clones are linked to Naruto and Each clone created reduces his chakra overall by a factor commensurate to the number of clones, then how can he extend Sagemode equally with each Clone he uses? The overall amount of Sage energy he has should remani the same not withstanding the number of clones generated, it makes more sense if the amount of sage energy from each new clone used would be less each time he uses a clone.

    Anyhow, aside from the clones and Sage Mode, Helping Kurama extend his chakra levels seems to be something that Naruto colud do by continuously feeding Natural Energy to Kurama, assuming that a tailed beast subsists on Natural Energy.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #36
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ I think that there was once a thread about this...

    Well anyway, I'm not even really sure if the workings of KB were even fully explained.

    KB splits your chakra equally, in this case, creating 2 additional bodies, making 3 bodies posses 1/3 of chakra. The amount of chakra wasted to perform the jutsu itself is probably split equally as well. The moment the jutsu case to exist, the chakra vanishes, while the experience of the clone comes back to the user, through unknown means, though it's quite likely is send through mental energies. The mechanics are never explained, but it just might be that a part of soul/mind energy with experience always drawn into the body that has most of them (the moment it flies free, it returns naturally, as if pulled by gravity), it might be a natural process itself and not part of the jutsu. It is also revealed that beside experience (a portion of mental energies), the NE also can travel back to the source, again through unknown means, thus making Naruto automatically enter SM. Of course, in reality it might be one big plothole.

    If Naruto's chakra is split into 1/3 equally, then each one enters SM, it means that each one has 1+/3+ reserves of Senjutsu chakra. When Naruto uses up most if not all of his 1+/3+, making him near empty, he then summons one of the clones that have 1+/3+, then the clones disperses, leaving only the + (NE), that enters the body of Naruto that has 0.1/3 (more or less) before taking NE, thus the intake of the NE, should turn him automatically into stone frog, since he has no longer any chakra of his own, to balance the NE that comes around.

    Of course, the addition of Natural Energy into the Chakra, turns it into Senjutsu Chakra, making it gain the same or similar properties as NE, thus meaning that even though Chakra by itself can't return from the dispelled clone, the Senjutsu Chakra can thanks to it being mixed with NE. Normally each time someone used a KB, it was considered a waste of Chakra, meaning that the separated chakra doesn't return normally, otherwise the usage of KB wouldn't have been considered such wasteful, if one could return it back anytime.

    There is yet another possibility, the Sage Mode itself activates one of Naruto's hidden abilities (as it was mentioned and showed many times to do this), which allows the chakra stored in KB clones to return to Naruto. It's simply never explained.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I had been wondering how Naruto could remain in Sage Mode just like Hashirama seems to be able to do (maybe even better than Hashirama), and this idea is what I came up with.
    A perfect sage, like Naruto and Hashirama, can remain in SM as long they have chakra, which is properly mixed with NE. The moment they run out of Chakra, is the moment that SM disappears, since both, Chakra and NE in the body are used up.

    Of course, one needs a certain amount of NE to even enter the SM, so the moment that it drops down to certain level, the state ends naturally, even if the user still has some chakra.


    Speaking about NE and the bijuu, Shukaku might be the only one (beside Jyubi) that can use it, since Shukaku's eyes are exactly the same as CS2 users (IIRC). Though this might be a result of using a host that himself might gather NE by itself (the rings around Garaa's eyes).

    Of course, this would actually make the 8-tail's comment, that the the number of tails doesn't determine the strength, make sense and that Shukaku was the only one that battled Kurama (perhaps because Shukaku was the only one that could ?). Perhaps Jyubi's ability to use NE, where entrusted solely to only one of the Bijuu, one that has the lowest amount of Chakra, which actually make some sense.
    Last edited by Zero; 08-21-2013 at 10:30 AM.



  7. #37
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Not Again..!!

  8. #38
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janfeae View Post
    Not Again..!!
    No, Not again. I mentioned it to make a point.

    If Naruto goes into sage mode, then he fires off 2 FRS's, he loses his sage mode, BUT! He can re-enter Sage mode immediately and all by himself without the clones (the clones were used to sidestep the need to stay still in the midst of battle. The fact that he can re-enter sage mode means he had enough chakra for a longer stint in Sage mode to start with, but he could only store and hold a certain amount inside him.

    If in this battle Juubito is to be defeated, and who knows, maybe Madara or Orochimaru after Obito, then being able to sustain a continuous and sustained sage mode might be necessary.

    Again I quickly add that this is all Fun Conjecture as a Fan, and Kishi may surprise us with something totally different.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  9. #39
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    On the workings of KB, i was under the impression that Naruto makes 3 clones leaving him with 1/3 of his original chakra, but straight after that his chakra starts regenerating, allowing him to reach his full chakra amount again. With the clones this does not happen, they do not regenerate chakra making it so when they gather natural energy they can only actually absorb 1/3 of the sage chakra, but when they release the KB the 1/3 is enough for Naruto to enter sage mode - die to his massive chakra pool.
    Quote Originally Posted by [JUiCE] View Post
    The virginity is strong in this one.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ It's more likely that Physical and Spiritual energies are being slowly replenished all the time, even in battle (unless they have run out on food and sleep), that is why after a long battle, some ninja still pull out jutsu even if it looks like they should be empty, because they have already molded a bit of the new chakra (there are times when that is even stated).

    In reality, if one were to truly use up all oh his/her energies to mold chakra, that is then quickly used up, that person would die (like Kakashi). Interesting enough is that Ninja that are able to truly use up their reserves, are rare. Most of the time, in order to protect itself, the body simply shuts down (a person looses consciousness). Actually, the only times a death from chakra usage happens, is when it is caused by a foreign object that wasn't originally there. Since one wasn't born with it, the body doesn't monitor it properly and isn't prepared for it going out of control, overboard or overused.



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