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  1. #11
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Zero, I think Kudduka was referring to the Magic Store inside Eclipse, not the Eclipse itself. Remember how the Eclipse Gate sucked Natsu's Magic away?

    Imagine if Seven Years worth of Magical power from all the mages had been available to Her, then how much more time she would have rolled back universally.
    Nah, they still not only work differently, but even are fueled by different things. Eclipse is fueled by whatever type of Magic you can get, while Last Aegis is fueled by Remaining Time. It's possible that Last Aegis might be modifiable in a way that would allow for sacrificing remaining time (life) of thousands other people, or even more ? Still it is easier and better to draw out Magic from other people, since they will replenish it eventually, while there is no way to replenish lost/used time (at least there is no easy way).

    It's quite interesting to note that some of the most powerful and old magic actually are not fueled by Magic, but by other things (the amount of magic is likely only used to start the process of drawing that something else):
    - Last Aegis uses Remaining Time,
    - Fairy Glitter uses gathered and concentrated Light,
    - Fairy Sphere uses Bonds and Faith,
    - probably more (like using fear and the like).

    I guess Lucy's comment about the Origin of Magic being the Heart doesn't seem so far away from the truth.



  2. #12
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiduka View Post
    Yeah Paul understood my point, she didn't have enough juice to power that magic spell to roll back time significantly. Basically she needs a huge reserve in magic like Eclipse.

    You know I was expecting to see Juvia lose her head in this chapter but she just wept, where's that killer Juvia gone lol

    Where?

    L-O-V-E


    @Zero,

    It sounds as though you're saying that no Magical Power is consumed while invoking Last Aegis, only the user's life.

    I disagree. Your Remaining Time is indeed the Penalty or Price you pay regardless of the outcome, but the amount of time you can actually revoke depends on the amount of Magic you bring to the spell.

    If a Novice who is super weak, and has almost no magical power were to somehow invoke Last Aegis, that Novice will die with almost no time revoked. On the other hand, Were Natsu to eat ALL the flame dragons and then invoke Last Aegis, He would Still die, but he might revoke perhaps Months or Years of time.

    I think it makes sense as a theme in Fairytail that regardless of the kind of Magic and the price paid (Ultear's Mother also died), you still require the Magical Power to feed into the technique perhaps for a time style mage, their time is commensurate with their magic power, certainly it should not be something like their good deeds etc etc .
    Last edited by paulbee; 06-15-2013 at 12:24 AM.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  3. #13
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Nope, the power of the spell depends on the remaining time. That's why she was shocked that her life was worth only 1 minute (which in reality is quite something since it affects the whole world), she even mentions this. If this spell depended on Magical power, then she would be doing nothing else but gathering it, in order to change the past even at her own cost (after her redemption), but that's not the case. Plus she would say that the total of her magical power amounted only to this much, if it depended on Magical Power, but that's not how it works. It is an old Magic and those often don't depend on Magical Power.

    The thing is, from what Hades said and how serious he was, even the novice kid Ultear could cast it.

    Really, the Magical power is only needed to start it's function, but the thing that fuels it, the thing that it's power depends on, is the remaining time (or if you prefer the remaining life). That's why this is a rather flawed magic, unless other people's time could be used for it. It was quite ironic (for her) that after all that evil she did and all that repenting she did, her life was still worth one minute, believing it wasn't enough to save anyone (ah, what a sad end, when it turns out that she not only managed to save few/many, but even gave Humanity an edge over Dragons and the possibility of counterattacking).

    I guess it could be said that the Magical Power is only used for preparing the transaction, the exchange between the time that was to be rewound, for time that the user still has (I wonder how this works, the time the body has, in other words death from old age, or the time until that person dies, for example being killed). I guess this is more like Alchemy rather than Magic (she does scream, while time-burning, "in exchange for my 'time'"). The Magical Power is only a catalyst that allows one to exchange it's own time for the time is to be rewound.

    Perhaps the whole point of the Ancient Magic being so powerful, might be because it didn't need to depend on ones Magical Power. In a way the Magicians then were more flexible in choosing the source/fuel of those Magics.



  4. #14
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    THen, Philosophically, this leads to some sort of regressive loop does it not?

    Anyone who casts the spell is automatically left with only a certain amount of remaining life, perhaps the time it takes for the spell to complete. Otherwise I feel certain that ultear would have lived longer than One Minute had she not used the spell. The only reason she had One minute was because she used the spell.

    Anyway, her sacrifice possibly saved the world, but she never knew it, which is sad.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  5. #15
    Senior Member Rykimaruh's Avatar
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    Am I the only one pissed at the whole one minute shenanigan? Gray's death could had been great for some dramatic narrative, but nope...I know it's Mashima, but still it could been better.

    The other thing is that 60 seconds actually making a difference...? Apparently it turned the tables against the dragons...which is the only thing I can't really let myself to accept.

    Now every death we see would likely end up being false and the character being alive or revived by some weird magic...I bet you Ultear isn't dead either...I'm SURE of it...'cuz it's Mashima...

  6. #16
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    THen, Philosophically, this leads to some sort of regressive loop does it not?

    Anyone who casts the spell is automatically left with only a certain amount of remaining life, perhaps the time it takes for the spell to complete. Otherwise I feel certain that ultear would have lived longer than One Minute had she not used the spell. The only reason she had One minute was because she used the spell.

    Anyway, her sacrifice possibly saved the world, but she never knew it, which is sad.
    It's hard to say. It's possible that she would have been killed by laser head-shot from a mini dragon in the next minute (lol, right after Grey but a minute later), or that the time she bought, by selling her own years, where equally divided between everyone and everything in the world (this seems more likely). Of course, this is Magic and not Alchemy, thus the exchange is likely not fair or probably even far from equal, thus for example the amount of time that can be rewound might be multiplied by an X years/time the users has (seeing as this is a magic that affects the whole world without any prior preparations, it is en extremely good deal).

    Well, we can always try and count it. Let's see, one year has 525 948,766 minutes (according to some Internet calculator). So now we get the amount of beings, living and not, in the FT World Earth and then we divide it by 525 948,766 and the result is how many years Ultear had left. Of course this would be the case if her remaining years were equally divided, without them first being multiplied.

    Yeah, that's the sad part... until you realize that there is already one ghost going around and playing with her guild... looks like Grey's gonna get a new stalker . If we count that Ult is probably always stalking Grey every time he enters into the Ocean, then Ultear is going to be number 3 .

    Anyway, reducing the Ice Make magicians was reasonable, since it has somewhat become the most often used magic in the story.
    Last edited by Zero; 06-15-2013 at 02:44 AM.



  7. #17
    LOL, U MAD? Arbitrary's Avatar
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    I don't really get why people hate so much on Ultear.

    It was one of the better chapters during this Dragon Fight arc.

  8. #18
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Zero, and @Kiduka

    A re-read of bothe versions left me with less certainty, but I feel compelled that the interpretation of the penalty for using Last Ages or Last Aeges is quite vague.

    For one thing, it is not clear beyond a doubt whether the technique steals your personal, literal time (time left), or just your life, period. Ultear did lament that One minute was all her life was worth, but was that literal or figurative? Did it mean that Her life span was worth only One minute of time revocation, or did she mean that One minute was all she got in exchange for losing her life.

    It is difficult to understand the correct interpretation of the Last Ages/Aeges penalty, since neither of the two sources are really that reliable anymore, and also Mashima may have been intentionally vague to begin with.

    I think that in the final analysis, we have no way to be sure of what happened.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  9. #19
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrary View Post
    I don't really get why people hate so much on Ultear.

    It was one of the better chapters during this Dragon Fight arc.
    It's quite sad, really. She spent the last 7 years repenting, found out she was still too evil, decided to throw away the rest of her life for one final act of repentance, and died not realizing that she got that repentance.

    And worst of all, probably no one will ever know. As far as the rest of the world is concerned, she just died somehow in the middle of the fighting.

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