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  1. #61
    Senior Member SquadZero's Avatar
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    I really don't know what to make of this mess except to say that Kubo has painted himself into a pretty pickle either way. Either OMZ was TZ in which case he would already have fused with Ichigo's hollow/shinigami powers before FGT rendering the end of the last chapter moot, or OMZ was not TZ in which case there was no reason for TZ to merge with the inner hollow before FGT because they were already merged since before Ichigo was borne as per Oetsu. Face it guys, it's a sloppy retcon either way, requiring too much conjecture outside of what has been written to make it jive. I still love it though... Just wish Kubo would clean it up, hopefully he does.

  2. #62
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    @Zero

    Nice fanfiction, you are always writing a lot, but there aren't any facts to really back it up.

    First of all, when Isshin suppressed Ichigo's hollow, he also suppressed his shinigami powers and that is why he was never able to obtain them on his own. The moment Ichigo got his own shinigami powers, he emerged with the hollow mask. When the Hollow was freed, OMZ immediately started suppressed him too and that is why Ichigo met him and not the Hollow when his inner world was crumbling.

    The change in personality can be simply explained. Isshin told Ichigo before that his Zanpakuto would go wild this time and this is exactly what happened as neither OMZ/TZ nor the hollow wanted to teach Ichigo the Final Getsuga Tenshou for the simple reason that Ichigo would lose his powers afterwards.

    Besides you asked if OMZ and the Hollow could fuse, why didn't they do it from the start? Well, haven't you been paying attention to the soul society arc and the beginning of the hueco mundo arc? The WERE fused together, OMZ called forth the Hollow for training and fused back with him right afterwards, the stronger one was always able appear in the inner world as Ichigo's powers. The hollow mentiones it when he tells Ichigo about the King and the horse and that right now (during mastering the hollow powers) he was the King and OMZ the horse.

    Right now the chances are 0 that OMZ and TZ are NOT the same person, until Kubo retcons it of course but if he does, it will make even less sense than the mess he has created now. So he will most likely find some lame excuse as to why TZ changed his appearance like "Oh he had used too much power suppressing the hollow" or something like that.


    If you think otherwise then answer this questions without beating around the bush.

    01) Where is TZ now.

    02) Where was OMZ back then, when Ichigo obtained his Final Getsuga Tenshou.

    03) Why do OMZ and TZ look alike so much.

    04) Why is the shinigami power's name that of the bankai?

    05) Why does the hollow look exactly like White and why has TZ 0 resemblence to him?

    06) Why does the new Asauchi look like hollow Ichigo and has 0 TZ traits?

    07) Why is Fusion Zangetsu the representation of ALL of Ichigo's power if there is no Quincy powers contained in him?

    08) Why didn't TZ warn him about OMZ or at least telling him that he is his true shinigami powers?

    09) Why did TZ explicitely say that Ichigo didn't recognise THIS FORM (still haven't read an acceptable answer to this one)

    10) Why did TZ interact with Ichigo as if the two had met before?

    11) Why did Oetsu say that the hollow represents his shinigami powers and didn't mention TZ? (Especially after explicitely mentioning that the Asauchi looked exactly like the Hollow)

    12) Where was TZ when Ichigo fought against the Hollow in his bankai form, while trying to master his hollow powers?

  3. #63
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Argonar View Post

    01) Where is TZ now.

    02) Where was OMZ back then, when Ichigo obtained his Final Getsuga Tenshou.

    03) Why do OMZ and TZ look alike so much.

    04) Why is the shinigami power's name that of the bankai?

    05) Why does the hollow look exactly like White and why has TZ 0 resemblence to him?

    06) Why does the new Asauchi look like hollow Ichigo and has 0 TZ traits?

    07) Why is Fusion Zangetsu the representation of ALL of Ichigo's power if there is no Quincy powers contained in him?

    08) Why didn't TZ warn him about OMZ or at least telling him that he is his true shinigami powers?

    09) Why did TZ explicitely say that Ichigo didn't recognise THIS FORM (still haven't read an acceptable answer to this one)

    10) Why did TZ interact with Ichigo as if the two had met before?

    11) Why did Oetsu say that the hollow represents his shinigami powers and didn't mention TZ? (Especially after explicitely mentioning that the Asauchi looked exactly like the Hollow)

    12) Where was TZ when Ichigo fought against the Hollow in his bankai form, while trying to master his hollow powers?
    1. He might still be fused with TZ, thus the Real Zanpakutou, which OMZ released now, might really be the Real One made of two parts.

    2. Where was TZ and OMZ when Ichigo was fighting with Whitey in the Vizards inner training ? Hiding. Ichigo even mentions that they would be able to do it, in his dangain inner training. When Ichigo asks where is Zangetsu, Whitey answer that he doesn't know. If he were to absorb him then he would know that he is in him, yet he says that. Thus, his answer might have been about the other Zangetsu and not necessary about OMZ in the first place.

    3. Sure, if you look at them as two people in black clothes then every Shinigami looks the same, but when you take a closer look they are different, very much different:
    OMZ---TZ:
    Brown hair --- Black hair
    Tall --- Short
    Red eyes (since he is a splitting image of Bach then of course he also has red eyes, probably the reason why he was wearing sunglasses in the first place) --- Blue eyes
    Old --- Young
    Has normal pants and shirt under the black coat --- has (seemingly) only pants under the coat
    Black reddish coat, with black on the inside --- black coat with white inside
    Sunglasses --- Hood
    Long, thin, straight nose --- Short nose
    thin eyelashes --- thick eyelashes
    no eyebrows? --- short but thick eyebrows
    --- different chins ---

    I can see how Kaien and Ichigo look alike, but TZ and OMZ don't. Their hair cuts are a bit similar, but still different, to make the illusion that they are similar, but when you take a closer look they are not. This is Kubo trolling his readers , because most people would think that they are the same basing on Ichigo's thoughts and point of view. Now that it is revealed that OMZ is not Zangetsu, the likelihood of them being the same went even more down than what it was before.

    4. Because they only appear in Bankai ? Not all things were yet answered. For example, Ichigo gains a Speed Boost in Bankai, in that case TZ would be the one responsible for it (and from the looks of it, if he weren't limited as he was up until now, then he might even able to boost all of his stats with a touch of bluish shining eyes - TZ's eyes are also blue). While the upgraded getsuga comes from Whitey.

    5. Simple, because the Shinigami part came from Ishin, while the Hollow part from the Hollow. Whitey himself not only looks like the Hollow, but also like Ichigo and Kaien, a Shiba clan member. It seems more like their appearance were a bit mixed up, especially seeing as they can fuse and mix up with each other (mix and fuse and not be absorbed into one or the other).

    6. Because Hollow part is the base for his Zanpakutou, up until now Ichigo was gaining an extra boost from his Shinigami part only in Bankai. Plus Asauchi is a sealed state, so the Shinigami power will flow unto the release of the Shikai, now that this part is no longer restricted from OMZ.

    7. OMZ himself states that QP is not his own true power (it seems that it is only borrowed). His true power is the Zanpakutou, that is made from his Shinigami and Hollow powers.

    8. Sure, let's drown Ichigo in an even deeper sea, why not, it's not like he has better things to do now, right ? Wrong. There was no time and plunging Ichigo into a greater sorrow wouldn't do much good, he needed to start moving forward again if he were to protect what he wants. If TZ where the same as OMZ and seeing as TZ was ready to do anything to make Ichigo move forward, then the first thing to do, would be to stop holding him back, by suppressing his powers. Yet it is revealed that all this time Ichigo's power was suppressed.

    9. Well, if you have never seen a plane in your life, how would you recognize Jumbo Jet as a plane ? He is a Form, but he doesn't say of what. It is your assumption that it is of OMZ, but there is nothing that says it, heck when asked if he is OMZ, he doesn't even answer.

    10. Because they did, each time Ichigo wielded his Bankai, beside drawing power from Whitey, he also was drawing a bit of power from TZ (they are one and the same, the Zanpakutou, but separated). It's quite logical, a Bankai, is a full release, so it's not surprising that Ichigo needs to draw from 2 parts of his whole Zanpakutou to even enter it (though most of it is still suppressed, or rather was up until now). A Full release, can't happen with half the power, there needs to be at least a bit of the other, otherwise it doesn't make sense.

    11. No, Oetsu never said that Hollow is his Shinigami power, he said that the Inner Hollow is Ichigo's True Zanpakuto, at least the part that Ichigo had access to. The Hollow merged with Ichigo's Shinigami powers, but later on was split (the fraction of power that OMZ couldn't contain as he so says himself, was split from the Real Zanpakutou that he was suppressing). In the first place the reason that his Shinigami and Hollow powers could merge, is because Whitey himself is made from Shinigami's souls and thus Shinigami power. The Real Zangetsu, would be the Whitey fused together with that Power that OMZ was suppressing all this time (still for Bankai to even activate a part would need to be released).

    12. Where was TZ and OMZ ? When Ichigo asked where is Zangetsu, Whitey answered that he doesn't know (I wonder now, did he answer it in regard to OMZ or in regard to the sword hidden beneath OMZ's cloath). If OMZ were to be absorbed, the not only OMZ but also the Other Part of Zangetsu, would be absorbed with him, thus rendering his answer that he doesn't know where Zangetsu is would a mayor pothole, if they were inside him (which he would know). This would mean that Ichigo would have access to his Real Zanpakutou at that point and that was not the case.



  4. #64
    Senior Member Anticrobotic's Avatar
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    I bet you 5 cents we won't continue with Ichigo this week. ^^

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