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Thread: Minato's Cloak

  1. #1
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Minato's Cloak

    This discussion has been the most frustrating. Pardon my seeming arrogance and rudeness but this isn't the matter of tobi's identity, rin's death, or edo chakra reserves... Minato's cloak is a very wild and amazing tease but also a very important question of "Who is Minato?". I am flabbergasted that so many mangashare forum pros are looking at it all wrong.

    For me, it was so exciting and never once did I lead off from the point of view of it somehow making Naruto "less" or "lessened".

    That conversation can stay over with in the form it took in 631 thread.

    Here, I want to point out, with page links, several interesting facets of Minato and Naruto "Rikudou" Cloaks.

    First, what is the Rikudou mode cloak? It was the result of Naruto's will overpowering the Fox's will (NOT STRENGTH OR POWER) and becoming the dominant force. Having won that struggle (IMPORTANT FACET!! = Naruto used not only inspiration of Kushina's memory chakra but MOST IMPORTANTLY.. SAGE MODE!!!)

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/499/7
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/499/12

    When the fox saw Naruto in the cloak for the first time, the fox exclaimed, 'The sage of the six paths?!!?" So we see, this cloak is now proven without a doubt that its manifestation is NOT simply a beast mode level or strictly to do with kyubi chakra. Since the appearance had elements the kyubi itself recognized as not belonging to him, there is no doubt it is a compound entity of which the kyubi chakra is only a part. I should say that not only the appearance was the kyubi surprised by but also the power and ability by which the kyubi was then overcome completely, something only the so6p should have been capable of (this is a shimering clue to minato's lineage, not the uzumaki seal, allowing naruto to be so powerful here).

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/499/14

    also, take note that when naruto turns his seal on his belly, the restrictions that deploy all over the fox look almost the same as the combined 4 kage seal on the 10 tails in chap 631. The comparisons and questions really get you thinking on the strength of uzumaki seals, minato's true strength, who and who was not a sage, what secrets each kage may have known about the fox and or bijuu chakra, how wood elements manifest in that spiritual plane of that seal without hashirama's "added for good measure", and just how crazy that temple is!

    here, we see exactly how the cloak is activated. After overcoming his struggle with the fox, the fox's chakra is stored in different places within naruto. Everything is fundamentally changed from here on out. The fox's chakra that Naruto accesses is housed in a suppression style shrine (with wood manifestation) possible by MINATO's 8 TRIGRAMS SEAL!

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/505/7
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/505/8

    And shortly after, when he first tries his new cloak in battle.. guess what?! HE ACTS LIKE MINATO!!

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/505/12
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/505/13

    Now we move onto BIJUU mode, the form and cloak Naruto wears when his chakra melds with Kuruma's chakra when both are voluntarily participating. This is the manifestation of their cooperation and friendship.

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/571
    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/571/5

    In the lower right, that mode takes the apperance of a glowing minato as well as furthering the body flicker ability for naruto! kakashi exclaims, "Sensei?!" Because in appearance and ability, Naruto's cloaks make him take the apperance of Minato!

    ____

    If I may come to a conclusion now I would say these things

    1) Rikudou mode is the result of who has the stronger will/chakratic will. It is not at all to do with taming or befriending. Naruto had to put the beast in its place and kick its ass to get the Rikudou mode however, Naruto fully acknowledged how insanely powerful the fox was. The type of power we are talking about here which Naruto used to win was will power, will, is an element to the central themes of the manga. Minato most certainly was on the level to achieve this accomplishment on his own accord, especially if the harness used was his own 8 Trigrams seal.

    2) Bijuu mode (not "tailed beast mode" where cloaks and tails appear in stages) for Naruto was unique. It was nothing like B and 8 tails forums. Naruto and Karuma both took apperances of the so6p spirals and tomoe, something Naruto only took in previous form. This is something I see Minato having a hard time having in the manga at this point. This was the result of full on cooperation, understanding, and mutual acknowledgement through sharing pain. Only Naruto was able to this and Minato said as much when he said that Naruto was the only one who could do it lol.

    3) Minato can have Rikudou mode because his will is powerful enough to overcome the fox's will. I am sure Sandaime could do the same if his sealing were strong enough. It is nothing to do with taming or befriending or understanding. Please think this through so we don't fall into silly analogies.

    4) All of Naruto's cloaks since sage mode have all garnered second looks and exclamations at the resemblences they take of MINATO!

    5) There is a mystery element to Minato's lineage which were the foundation of Naruto's achievements in the first place. After all, if all of Naruto's powerups make him look like Minato then let's investigate Minato. Paulbee has cemented this as a crucial point of interest. Minato probably has a stronger blood/spiritual/will tie to so6p than any senju, uchiha, or uzumaki (they are descendents of the SONS through blood AND jutsu, not through the stock that begat the sage).

    Everything about minato's appearance is based on the so6p template from jacket to hair, the symbols on the clothing to symbols in Minato's seals.

    http://narutobase.net/manga/Naruto/572/11


    There is nothing arbitrary or strictly unwarranted fanservice about Minato's cloak in 631. At its plainest, it asserts Minato's will as being on par with Naruto's in strength and ability to overcome the Kyubi's will. It ends there, there is no foot in the door to Minato becoming friends with YIN fox just yet. I, personally, would not like to see that as it would 180 Minato's words, "only naruto can do it".

    Naruto and Minato both having the cloak at the same time is a statement about Minato and a wrap up of the fox's "so6p?!" exclamation, demonstrating that Minato and Naruto are parts (pein was a separate part for question and confirmation) of the so6p inheritance arriving on time.

    For the love of pete, stop saying Minato's cloak cheapens Naruto's struggle when there is a huge age difference, huge educational difference, huge experience difference, huge difference in everything except they are still father and son and became bound to same conflict at the same time and can now meet as equals and have Naruto demonstrate his ability to even surpass Minato.

    Minato's cloak cheapens nothing, it is setting up to finally show Naruto will surpass his dad. We heard it in words but we have not seen Naruto demonstrate this since Kakashi acknowledged it. We are getting setup for an epic milestone and yet we jump the gun at one panel as if it were some sort of affront!
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  2. #2
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    When the fox saw Naruto in the cloak for the first time, the fox exclaimed, 'The sage of the six paths?!!?
    I think the fox was referring to the seal being used on him cause remember those gates that fell from the sky to pin Kurama are the same ones used by Hashirama to pin the 10 tails.

    Honestly I think people are over complicating this Minato cloak bsns. He sealed only half of the tailed beasts chakra not the tailed beast itself so there was nothing to tame. Also even "just for the sake of argument" if he had to tame it there is the matter of him being the 4th Hokage does it matter what his lineage, hes the motherfracking 4th he's a god damn genius what do you expect!

    Are people really trying to compare Minato to Naruto really? Do I even need to go there?

    Anymore than comparing Itachi to Sasuke.


    Minato and Itachi in terms of Intelligence+Ability are on a level of their own. Deal with it!


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  3. #3
    Scanlator Monz's Avatar
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    I'm supposed to say Amen right?

    Spoiler!

  4. #4
    Senior Member psukkar's Avatar
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    As I understand it the riko cloak comes about from the sealing system used by the uzumaki, both minato and naruto have the same seal system used on their bodies to hold the fox's chakra. The fox mentioned this when he we frist saw minato go riko mode.

    So what this whole minato using the same clock as naruto really proves is that the uzmaki clan have a close ties with the riko with himself.

    The theory that the so6p being an uzumaki seems to gain traction now days, but I think its more that the uzumaki clan inherited the so6p sealing techs.

    The strong body is in relation to the senju clan since they are relatives. but their sealing techs seem to be very close to what the riko used in his time. Im still waiting to see how sage mode and the riko mode with interact. Kishi is saving it from naruto when he's forced to use it I guess.

    So to conclude it doesn't matter who minato is, but more on how the uzumaki are tied in with the riko.


    Also I think it was one of the most silliest things to minato the riko cloak, why u ask?

    1) how long did it take for naruto get this far and hes been actually living with the fox his whole life.
    2) in the end wherther ppl wana admit it or not this stronger will is bullcrap. After naruto stole abit of the fox's chakra he still was no where near as powerful as he is now. You know what made him stronger?The fox.

    The fox accepted naruto as his partner nothing more, nothing less. Minato is no position to make any inroads with the fox like naruto has done with the fox. So minato is far inferior to naruto when it comes to power. Otherwise the whole point of making the fox decide to help naruto was a total waste of ink on paper.
    Last edited by psukkar; 06-26-2013 at 02:23 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    I think the fox was referring to the seal being used on him cause remember those gates that fell from the sky to pin Kurama are the same ones used by Hashirama to pin the 10 tails.

    Honestly I think people are over complicating this Minato cloak bsns. He sealed only half of the tailed beasts chakra not the tailed beast itself so there was nothing to tame. Also even "just for the sake of argument" if he had to tame it there is the matter of him being the 4th Hokage does it matter what his lineage, hes the motherfracking 4th he's a god damn genius what do you expect!
    Well, only a little bit portion of Oro's (senjutsu) chakra is inserted into the CS, yet a full sentient Orochimarue came out of it. After all, Chakra = Mind and Physical energies.

    From the looks of it, but perhaps lost in translation, Minato actually split the Chakra/Bijuu, into Yin Chakra and Yang Chakra, so each part had mind and physical energies but in different proportions.

    Let's also not forget, that after sealing half of the Kyubi in himself, the Death God shows that Kyubi's soul is hostile towards Minato's soul (now linked together), which proves that the half of the Kyubi that was sealed in Minato also had a mind of it's own. That's why they, Kurama and Naruto, were impressed that Minato have easily (since he had much, much less time to do it, assuming that nothing really happens in the Death God's Belly, since when they came out, it didn't seem as if they were battling a second ago) owned Kyubi in the Tug of War. Of course, it's no surprise, Minato have already overcome his hatred long ago, as it can be seen in the flashback of him.



  6. #6
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Minato's cloak is indeed very interesting (to me at least).

    I'll affirm that:

    1) The similarity in appearance btwn the SO6P and Minato is not a coincidence.
    2) There is a blood/familial link between Minato and the SO6P
    3) Naruto's cloak appears because Naruto is linked to SO6P through his dad Minato's line
    4) I don't believe that anybody else who is not related to Minato would have the same cloak that Minato and Naruto have, even if they had the full/complete Kyuubi's chakra in them.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  7. #7
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    after some more chapters and rereading, this discussion is worth reviving (especially now, since current and ongoing revelations taking place in the manga pertain to this discussion). more importantly, a focus should be placed on minato's lineage itself, not simply the cloak.. both are related, however.

    so, in "ask a question thread".. some issue was raised with the kyuubi, yin and yang, hakke fun and dead demon seal.

    here are some facts.

    -minato can activate a cloak similar to naruto's cloak, which the manga and naruto call a "kyuubi mode" but some of us readers call, "rikoudo mode" minato and naruto, when in this mode (we assume their modes ARE THE SAME and the cloaks ARE SIMILAR because their modes ARE THE SAME)

    -minato sealed yang kyuubi into naruto using HAKKE FUN to make a jinchuuriki

    -minato sealed yin kyuubi into himself using ONLY DEAD DEMON SEAL (no hakke fun was involved)

    -minato used hakke fun AFTER dead demon seal and ONLY on naruto, at no point was hakke fun used on minato himself!

    http://www.mangapark.com/manga/Naruto/c504/6

    __

    so now, dead demon seal does not make jinchuurikis, or at least we have no reason to believe it should since to make a jinchuuriki a special seal must be used in order to allow both chakras to correctly mingle, struggle, bond.

    as for the cloak, we can say that the markings appearing on both minato's body and naruto's body ARE NOT necessarily because of the hakke fun seal's reactive designs and this is now PROBABLY correct.

    I am pushing ahead with the theory that minato and naruto take their markings from the fox chakra because of their so6p lineage and NOT for simply bijuu reasons alone. Also, the cloak's color is YELLOW! a color indicative of minato and naruto, it ISN"T orange, the fox's color. the cloak is special to only minato and naruto and nobody outside their lineage could reproduce it.

    Now, for the actual lineage part..

    at first, i thought minato may have had his ancestral beginnings in the cloud village or among its clans. i no longer think this.

    I believe minato is a grandson or nephew/grand nephew of hashirama. The ONLY character that is tied to importance that HAS NOT BEEN MENTIONED AT ALL is tsunade's parent/ hashirama's child. Why have none of hashirama's kids been mentioned? We have missed hashirama's death scene so we do not know what family would have been near him or most affected at a funeral. Also, the fact that minato uses the exact same technique as the second hokage, hashirama's brother, on a level that only a senju of that generation could do heavily suggest minato is directly and very recently descended from that line. also, recall jaraya's and tsunade's final conversation before the pein fight. tsunade acted rather fondly towards her memories of minato, fondly in a way i think that is more than a close village relationship or ninja relationship but MORE of a blood family relationship. in any case, minato and tsunade both share at least one relative within 2 generations but probably are directly related to the same senju within one generation.

    this is the most viable satisfaction for making naruto symbolize the ancestral brother by being a "destined descendent".

    ALSO, given the unusual "screen time" of the second hokage fighting alongside minato and naruto COULD ALSO MEAN that minato's parental line comes straight from nidaime, and NOT hashirama and that would equally still satifsy the same things if minato was parented by hashirama's branch as well as reinforce the solution and idea to the branch family dilemma of the hyuuga and proving it wrong once again. given that they both use flying thundergod and yellow hair is close to white in color..

    MINATO IS MOST LIKELY AN IMMEDIATE DESCENDENT OF TOBIRAMA WITHIN 2 GENERATIONS!!!
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  8. #8
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I think the last Chapter of The Manga showed that the Yin Kyuubi is NOT just chakra, it is a full on Kyuubi. It has a mind, has thoughts, and has fellings. So Knife Eater is correct that Minato's Will had to overcome The Yin Kyuubi's Will in order to enter Chakra Mode ("Rikudo Mode" per Knife Eater).

    Now, will Minato "befriend" the Yin Kyuubi? Probably not. I think the best we can hope for is for the Yin Kyuubi to refrain from sucking out his Chakra while he's in Kyuubi Chakra Mode. Already it is evident that The Yin Kyuubi is falling "In Love" with Naruto. The benefit of this is that the Entire Kyuubi will be able to Sync With Naruto when they join. The Yin Kyuubi may actually feel a stronger bond to the SO6P than the Yang did, since tradittionally Yin has represented emotions (hence EMO Uchiha). ANother thought is that if the SO6P had left any mental impressions in the Kyuubi, the Yin Kyuubi is likely to have/contain it.


    A lot seems to boil down to whether Naruto is able to be the Promised Child/ Prophesied successor of the SO6P, due to his Uzumaki Lineage, due to his Minato's Lineage along with Visual Similarities to the SO6P, or due to his will power and Will Of Fire Type of attitude.

    Firstly The Will of Fire is nice, but it is not reality. Naruto could not be the Successor without first being the Kyuubi's Jinchuuriki. But as Jinchuuriki, Naruto could not have Mixed his own chakra with the Kyuubi's and gone as far as he went, without being Kushina's son (Not just any Uzumaki will do, Mito and Kushina had special chakras).

    Now had Naruto been anybody elses kid but Minato's, he would not have recieved the Kyuubi, and only Minato and Kushina could have used the Hakke seal on Naruto, (the Hakkes seal being almost visually indistinguishable from the dead demon seal BTW).

    Unless if Kishimoto is a Sadist who delights in making fans Twist in Pain, he has drawn glympses of the SOP6 to resemble Minato way too much. Why?

    I remember the Tobi =Madara = Izuna debate. In that debate, I with many others dissmissed the idea of Tobi=Obito as too simplistic a give away due to name similarities. We pointed out many inconsistencies, age, size, knowledge, techniques. But what did Kishi do? He went for the Obvious clue. Obito == Tobi (I haven't forgiven you yet Kishi LOL).

    Anyway, the most obvious clue this time around is that The SO6P resembled Naruto and Minato, and the Kyuubi Cloak in Bijuu Mode (What I call Rikuudo mode, because this is where Naruto resembled the SO6P the Most with a Cape Made from Chakra and hair that sticks out like horns), I think/hope it is that way because they have some connection to him, and the Uzumaki Lineage further strengthens that connection in Naruto way past Minato.

    I feel the SO6P left part of himself in the Kyuubi
    in such a way that only the right person could unlock it. That person was not Mito. She went as far as Chakra Mode, but could not make it all the way to Bijuu Mode (My Rikudo Mode). It took the real successor with the right lineage, and the right attitude, (NOTICE the similarities in Naruto and Minato's personalities/attitudes in the last 2 chapters?) to be able to do it and handle the Kyuubi's heavy chakra at the same time.

    Anyways, that's what I think for Now. LOL, Only Kishi knows in the end.
    Last edited by paulbee; 08-14-2013 at 02:48 AM.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  9. #9
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    nice post.

    my take now is.. the cloak is not from a jinchuuriki state. it is the result of the fox chakra being "more free" and exposed and not in a state where it is being regulated and controlled by the special jinchuuriki seals. this would prove minato is not a jinchuuriki, he can either keep it locked or let it out in a very strict toggle sense but he cannot do anything with the chakra like a jinchuuriki. also, this correlates with naruto's cloak, as the is in the mode because he has let the fox act independently and autonomously so the chakra is fully unlocked, not jinchuuriki seal regulated!

    to reinforce paulbee's point, we have a perfect demonstration from the manga. when naruto first entered "rikudou mode", we all remember quite well the mokuton that flourished. basically, whether it's a unique trait from the fox chakra or from residuals of the so6p himself within the fox.. chakra that radiates from that mode will cause certain things exposed to it to react in a special way. the minato/naruto cloaks are their unique reactions to the freed fox chakra, nobody else would react that way. it's exactly the same as only mokuton and wood flourished but you didn't see bee growing extra fingers or hachibi growing more tails.

    so, if sarutobi were to have used the dead demon seal to place the fox chakra in himself the same as minato did, sarutobi would not ever get that cloak, instead he might grow mighty ape hair or something.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

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