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  1. #111
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Sorry to get a bit off topic, but it is seriously bothering me now...As i re-read Naruto chapters, I see more and more nameless Senju. I know some have argued in the past that they have mixed in with other clans, but so have other clans(Minato and Kushina, Asuma and Kurenai, etc. ). Yet, they still have an established clan. All throughout the war we have seen many of the Leafs clans working together. Even clans we almost never see like the Sarutobi clan. But there has not even been one Senju. The Uzumaki and Uchiha are known to have been wiped out. But...where on earth did all of the Senju go?????

    I must say, I cannot think of how the strongest clan of all time simply gets wiped out or just vanishes altogether. And because of how revered they were, even if they mixed, I am absolutely positive their techniques and ninja skills would still stand out. I don't know of any character alive today who achieves and displays techniques on the level of Senju status.

    Unless the Senju all took refuge in Uzushiogakure ( Village Hidden by Whirling Tides/ Hidden Eddy Village) at the time of its destruction, I cannot think of any reason that they do not have an established clan today. And even with that theory, what clan or village could take out the Senju AND the Uzumaki?? I cannot let this matter go...Can someone give me a little insight that perhaps doesn't involve extreme clan mixing?

  2. #112
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janfeae View Post
    Sorry to get a bit off topic, but it is seriously bothering me now...As i re-read Naruto chapters, I see more and more nameless Senju. I know some have argued in the past that they have mixed in with other clans, but so have other clans(Minato and Kushina, Asuma and Kurenai, etc. ). Yet, they still have an established clan. All throughout the war we have seen many of the Leafs clans working together. Even clans we almost never see like the Sarutobi clan. But there has not even been one Senju. The Uzumaki and Uchiha are known to have been wiped out. But...where on earth did all of the Senju go?????

    I must say, I cannot think of how the strongest clan of all time simply gets wiped out or just vanishes altogether. And because of how revered they were, even if they mixed, I am absolutely positive their techniques and ninja skills would still stand out. I don't know of any character alive today who achieves and displays techniques on the level of Senju status.

    Unless the Senju all took refuge in Uzushiogakure ( Village Hidden by Whirling Tides/ Hidden Eddy Village) at the time of its destruction, I cannot think of any reason that they do not have an established clan today. And even with that theory, what clan or village could take out the Senju AND the Uzumaki?? I cannot let this matter go...Can someone give me a little insight that perhaps doesn't involve extreme clan mixing?
    It's possible that the Senju simply disbanded and stopped using the Senju last name, this would not be the first time it happened in Manga and anime. eg. Kurosaki Ichigo should have been Shiba Ichigo, and Uzumaki Naruto should be Namikaze Naruto. We don't even know Jiraiya's , Yamato, or Guy's Last names (unless Maito is a last name).

    I'm guessing that Hashirama disbanded the Senju at the founding of Konoha as a sign of goodwill, leading by example, that Clans are no longer needed, and all clans should mix freely together.

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  3. #113
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It's possible that the Senju simply disbanded and stopped using the Senju last name, this would not be the first time it happened in Manga and anime. eg. Kurosaki Ichigo should have been Shiba Ichigo, and Uzumaki Naruto should be Namikaze Naruto. We don't even know Jiraiya's , Yamato, or Guy's Last names (unless Maito is a last name).

    I'm guessing that Hashirama disbanded the Senju at the founding of Konoha as a sign of goodwill, leading by example, that Clans are no longer needed, and all clans should mix freely together.

    Hmm, I do like the idea, but as far as Naruto goes, I think I remember the village elders calling him Uzumaki instead of Namikaze for a reason. The only thing left that bothers me I guess is that the Senju were supposed to be top of the food chain. So why haven't ninja come forth displaying extraordinary skill?

    I also wonder why if Hashirama did that, why no other clan did. From what I see, even ninja who's last names favor the mother instead of the father, still have an established clan in the village, with several others who share there surname.


    My point is, back in the day, with the exception of Obito, it was clear that the Uchiha were superior in combat, and it was easy to spot one. So the Senju, who were said to be stronger, should be easily recognized as well. They were earth and water style based if not mistaken. I can't think of any top ninja alive today who fits that description. I believe if the Uchiha were on the battlefield, they would sure make an impression. I feel the Senju would as well. Every ninja on the field other than main and supporting characters are in the fodder class. I hope Kishimoto sheds some light on this. I do thank you for your insightful response paulbee



    Your comment about Mintato's last name makes me think...there is no one who shares the name Namikaze either. Another elite clan no doubt. We also have no idea how Hashirama or Tobirama died, but they were both young.I think there is a major event were missing, that involved the extermination of elite clans: juuust maybe...

  4. #114
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janfeae View Post
    Hmm, I do like the idea, but as far as Naruto goes, I think I remember the village elders calling him Uzumaki instead of Namikaze for a reason. The only thing left that bothers me I guess is that the Senju were supposed to be top of the food chain. So why haven't ninja come forth displaying extraordinary skill?

    I also wonder why if Hashirama did that, why no other clan did. From what I see, even ninja who's last names favor the mother instead of the father, still have an established clan in the village, with several others who share there surname.


    My point is, back in the day, with the exception of Obito, it was clear that the Uchiha were superior in combat, and it was easy to spot one. So the Senju, who were said to be stronger, should be easily recognized as well. They were earth and water style based if not mistaken. I can't think of any top ninja alive today who fits that description. I believe if the Uchiha were on the battlefield, they would sure make an impression. I feel the Senju would as well. Every ninja on the field other than main and supporting characters are in the fodder class. I hope Kishimoto sheds some light on this. I do thank you for your insightful response paulbee



    Your comment about Mintato's last name makes me think...there is no one who shares the name Namikaze either. Another elite clan no doubt. We also have no idea how Hashirama or Tobirama died, but they were both young.I think there is a major event were missing, that involved the extermination of elite clans: juuust maybe...
    There is one more possibility, Hashirama himself might have destroyed Senju, as at the end of the Vote, his conviction was to protect Konoha, even at the cost of his clan, friends, family, brother, or himself.

    It's also possible that they have mostly died in Great Ninja Wars (like Tsunade's brother), seeing as the name Senju would have been an ideal target to make oneself known, beside they are of high class experimental value (kukukuku, seeing as Oro was not the only one that experimented with Hashirama'a cells, he and others would certainly want to try it on some Senju).

    IIRC, Tobirama died because of mortal wounds, that were inflicted likely around Danzou's flashback, by Silver-Gold Brothers (mentioned by Tsunade in this war, IIRC).

    As to Hashirama, well it's truly unknown, but he doesn't seem to be too old as an Zombie (then again his lifespan might have been on the level of Uzumaki, then again Madara himself doesn't look like his Grandpa version...).



  5. #115
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    There is one more possibility, Hashirama himself might have destroyed Senju, as at the end of the Vote, his conviction was to protect Konoha, even at the cost of his clan, friends, family, brother, or himself.

    It's also possible that they have mostly died in Great Ninja Wars (like Tsunade's brother), seeing as the name Senju would have been an ideal target to make oneself known, beside they are of high class experimental value (kukukuku, seeing as Oro was not the only one that experimented with Hashirama'a cells, he and others would certainly want to try it on some Senju).

    IIRC, Tobirama died because of mortal wounds, that were inflicted likely around Danzou's flashback, by Silver-Gold Brothers (mentioned by Tsunade in this war, IIRC).

    As to Hashirama, well it's truly unknown, but he doesn't seem to be too old as an Zombie (then again his lifespan might have been on the level of Uzumaki, then again Madara himself doesn't look like his Grandpa version...).

    True about Madara, but I believe that's part of what Kabuto meant about restoring him to his prime, and not so much the abilities he possesses. I did forget about the Second, since it appeared as though he sacrificed himself so his comrades could escape, but perhaps a Great Ninja War or two is the missing key Zero.

  6. #116
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I'd bet yamato is Senju, afterall he was compatible with Hashirama's Mokuton. I think the easiest answer is that the Senju disbanded and took the names of their Parents instead of the Clan, just as we do today, or in Norse times, Thor Odinson, son of Odin Borson, son of Bor Burison, Son of Frost Giant Demonson (LOL).

    I don't think any cataclysm would have killed off the SEnju and still left the village Standing. As you know, one reason for the village was for a place whare the clans could freely mix, and Knowing Hashirama, disbanding the Senju clan would have been attractive to him.

    If Tomorrow, Sakura married Sasuke, or Naruto Married Hinata (Go Naru-Hina...YEAH!!), what names would their offspring take, would the names fully reflect their clans..No!

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  7. #117
    Senior Member janfeae's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I'd bet yamato is Senju, afterall he was compatible with Hashirama's Mokuton. I think the easiest answer is that the Senju disbanded and took the names of their Parents instead of the Clan, just as we do today, or in Norse times, Thor Odinson, son of Odin Borson, son of Bor Burison, Son of Frost Giant Demonson (LOL).

    I don't think any cataclysm would have killed off the SEnju and still left the village Standing. As you know, one reason for the village was for a place whare the clans could freely mix, and Knowing Hashirama, disbanding the Senju clan would have been attractive to him.

    If Tomorrow, Sakura married Sasuke, or Naruto Married Hinata (Go Naru-Hina...YEAH!!), what names would their offspring take, would the names fully reflect their clans..No!
    i found this. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v63/c627/8.html

    You may have been spot on in your theory. It could have been a bad translation, but it states that Hashirama planned to desegregate the clans of the village. It appears this isn't actually the case, given that even though they live harmoniously, the leaf village still has established clans, each with their own traits an abilities that sets them apart. Sorry for deviating so far off topic, It just bothered me that some of the top clans in Naruto, seemingly vanished without a trace.

    I do believe there will be a revelation at some point revolving around this manner, as well as the mysterious destruction of the Uzumaki, and the mysterious Namikaze clan and lineage.

  8. #118
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by janfeae View Post
    i found this. http://www.mangahere.com/manga/naruto/v63/c627/8.html

    You may have been spot on in your theory. It could have been a bad translation, but it states that Hashirama planned to desegregate the clans of the village. It appears this isn't actually the case, given that even though they live harmoniously, the leaf village still has established clans, each with their own traits an abilities that sets them apart. Sorry for deviating so far off topic, It just bothered me that some of the top clans in Naruto, seemingly vanished without a trace.

    I do believe there will be a revelation at some point revolving around this manner, as well as the mysterious destruction of the Uzumaki, and the mysterious Namikaze clan and lineage.
    Yeah hashirama's plans haven't panned out, but at least Kids like Konohamaru and his friends haven't had to go to war, which was really important to Hashirama. Some of the other things just take time it seems.

    You know that Ino or Sakura will end up with Sasuke, and Hinata or Sakura will get Naruto, slowly the desegregation will come to pass. I would not be surprised if it was Tobirama who disbanded the Senju (assuming that's what happened).


    Will Orochimaru give up his old hobby?

    Last edited by paulbee; 05-27-2013 at 04:07 AM.

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  9. #119
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    It's hard to speak about clan names when the lineages have been diluted through the generations.

    Example, how can we say for sure what Tsunade surname or clan is ? it's isn't possible, since Harashirama was Senju, and Mito was Uzumaki, so at least 1 of Tsunades parents was half of each, and depending on the other parent, she could also have traits from a third clan so she can be entitled for at least 2 clans names if not 3.

    Naruto, was always called Uzumaki, but in his case, i believe that it was due to the fact that Sarutobi, as third Hokage, made all that was related to the foxs incident (therefore, naruto's birth aswell) been classified has confidential.

    So, to allow Naruto to grow in the village, despite the previous generation knowing that he was the jinchuriki, they didnt know, that he was Minato's son.
    It was the logical option, to call him Uzumaki Naruto, instead of Namikaze Naruto, because if the second option was chosen, the relationship between Naruto and Minato would be instantaneous, and the third didn't want that.

    Example: If Naruto ends with Hinata, should their kids be called Namikaze, Uzumaki or Hyūga ?? If he ends up with Sakura, should the kids be called Hanuro, Uzumaki or Namikaze ?

    The clan names, make sense if the parents are from the same clan, but otherwise shinobi like Jyraia, Tsunade, Orochimaru, and so many others, that we don't know a surname, it isnt really important, because through the clans will more and more "fuse" in newer generations, and so, the kids will have traits from diferent clans.

  10. #120
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    In Japan, when you marry into a clan, you don't keep your last name, whether you're male or female. Naruto, being clanless, can either marry into his future mate's clan, or make one of his own.

    It's entirely possible the Senju slowly married themselves into other clans. Especially more plausible if the clan leaders all died out and no one was willing or able to claim the top spot. It's possible that somewhere along the line there came a hardliner Senju who wants to fight for his clan's supremacy, but I find that hard to believe. The most hardliner Senju we've seen is Tobirama and he had more love for the village than he had for his clan.

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