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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    What's more, there is no mention of the Shiba clan as an ex-noble family, so whatever is going to happen next with Ishin, it might be the reason for the current state of the Shiba family.
    Soifon mentioned about its downfall to yoruichi when they fought in the SS arc........

  2. #22
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Look at the last panel here:-

    Note how Aizen Addresses Isshin.

    Spoiler!


    If anyone should know his real name, it would be Aizen.

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  3. #23
    Senior Member SquadZero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I doubt that it will be so easy. We are talking about Aizen here, he easily framed Urahara and made out Hollows out of Vizards. What's more, there is no mention of the Shiba clan as an ex-noble family, so whatever is going to happen next with Ishin, it might be the reason for the current state of the Shiba family. Then again, there was not mention about the Shiba clan at the time of Kaien's being VC... just wait a minute. Kaien was already a VC at the time of the Pandelum arc and at that time he declined (Ukitake's) proposition to become a Captain, so does this mean that Kaien is actually older than Ishin ? Wait a minute, then who is the uncle, that Kukaku spoke of, that wouldn't be happy with sending Ichigo to Soul King's Palace :O ?


    Actually, Kaien had turned down Ukitake's offer to be a VC during TBTP arc, so we do not yet know if he is even a VC at this time yet. It could very well be that Kaien is pretty close or even older than Isshin yet still be his nephew. Kaien is presumably part of the main branch of the family where as Isshin has been stated to be a part of a lesser branch. I still have trouble believing that anything Isshin could do would be so very dishonorable that even as a member of a lesser branch it would affect the whole clan to the point where it would stripped of its nobility. Maybe it was a combination of Isshin's actions coupled with later events where Kaien(presumbably as the family's head) got turned into a hollow that finally did the clan in.
    Last edited by SquadZero; 04-11-2013 at 08:32 AM.

  4. #24
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    I doubt that it will be so easy. We are talking about Aizen here, he easily framed Urahara and made out Hollows out of Vizards. What's more, there is no mention of the Shiba clan as an ex-noble family, so whatever is going to happen next with Ishin, it might be the reason for the current state of the Shiba family.
    It's also possible that Isshin was forced to dispose of the Quincies and chose to escape himself with the help of his family. It could be why the Shibas were ostracized.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Anticrobotic's Avatar
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    Hmm, seems Urahara's been wearing that ugly-ass hat for a looong time. ^^

  6. #26
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SquadZero View Post


    Actually, Kaien had turned down Ukitake's offer to be a VC during TBTP arc, so we do not yet know if he is even a VC at this time yet. It could very well be that Kaien is pretty close or even older than Isshin yet still be his nephew. Kaien is presumably part of the main branch of the family where as Isshin has been stated to be a part of a lesser branch. I still have trouble believing that anything Isshin could do would be so very dishonorable that even as a member of a lesser branch it would affect the whole clan to the point where it would stripped of its nobility. Maybe it was a combination of Isshin's actions coupled with later events where Kaien(presumbably as the family's head) got turned into a hollow that finally did the clan in.
    Well, there is another translation (which seems better), in which Kaien says that he is a Vice-Captain and will not become a Captain (so that he can continue supporting Ukitake and Division, since the captain is often sick):
    Spoiler!

    not to mention that, a few pages later (http://www.mangastream.to/bleach-cha...0-page-19.html) he says that it looks like he will be a VC even longer, seeing as constantly new young talented genius enter the Gotei.

    Sure, Kaien might be a genius, but since Ishin is basically on Aizen's level, it does seem strange that Kaien would have been that much better the moment he joined the Gotei. Or perhaps this shows just how much potential is in the main branch compared to the side one, especially seeing as the side one could produce someone like Ishin. This might mean that Kaien himself could have been way above the current Ishin and perhaps would have become a Royal Guard one day.

    Speaking of the past arc, now that we have seen young Ishin as a captain, it has become even more probable that he was one of the no-names within Urahara's division:
    Spoiler!


    This would make some sense, because otherwise it is extremely strange that Ishin would believe and trust a first class criminal like Urahara.
    Last edited by Zero; 04-11-2013 at 02:15 PM.



  7. #27
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Somebody help wit this:

    Whitey was a Hollowified Dead Shinigami (?)
    Vizards were Hollowified Living Shinigami who were Stabilized by HGQ (Except for Ichigo who Stabilized himself).

    Whitey was created for what, was it to attack Shinigami and infect them? If so, why was it just killing Shinigami?

    Any references to Manga pages as to the purpose for which Whitey was created would be appreciated.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Somebody help wit this:

    Whitey was a Hollowified Dead Shinigami (?)
    Vizards were Hollowified Living Shinigami who were Stabilized by HGQ (Except for Ichigo who Stabilized himself).

    Whitey was created for what, was it to attack Shinigami and infect them? If so, why was it just killing Shinigami?

    Any references to Manga pages as to the purpose for which Whitey was created would be appreciated.
    Hmmm, according to mangastream translation (which seems better), Whitey's purpose was only to evolve. It seems that in order to do that, it was hunting Shinigamis but, at one vital point it chose a Quincy rather than a Captain-class Shinigami. This is what brought Aizen's attention. Since it's purpose was evolution, this means that it deemed a Quincy more vital to it's evolution than a Captain-class Shinigami.

    According to what Tousen said, he imploded, or perhaps were to implode from the very beginning the moment he reaches the peak of evolution (they wouldn't be able to beat it otherwise), which should be a complete fusion, but it seems that it reached it's limit before achieving their goal and thus was a failure. Of course, a failure for a one means a chance for Aizen ;D.

    It's possible that they have gathered the Shinigami's particles when he/she was dissapearing and made a hollow out of them. Otherwise I'm not sure how they could have made it with a DEAD Shinigami.

    It's worth noting that in this chapter it was again implied that Quincy's are no mere humans and there is something special about them. There is even one line from Ishin, in which he says that "they don't make them like her anymore". It is quite a strange line considering that Masaki is a living human and was born not made. It's likely that he simply meant that there are no more girls like her, though he might have meant that Quincy are not really born but are made somewhat artificially (their souls perhaps ?), though it does seem unlikely.



  9. #29
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    Here is how i see it:

    Whitey is NOT a Hollowified shinigami. He is a corpse of a shingiami, modified to attack and "infect" other shinigami. In other word's a walking, single-use hollowifier

    The thing about hollowifying Hirako and co. was that it ended up being a failure (Aizen at this point in time, doesn't know they were saved, nor that hogyoku even exist's). The reason it was a failure - it seems - was because it was too abrubt.

    So what if, rather than forcibly remove the shinigami-hollow boundry. You were to start a process, were the boundry dissapears slowly on it's own, and the subject's body has time to adjust?

    That's were whitey comes in. It's not even a hollow, it just looks like one, What (obviously) wasn't expected was that it performed the hollowification on a Human/Quincy.

  10. #30
    Senior Member SquadZero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Well, there is another translation (which seems better), in which Kaien says that he is a Vice-Captain and will not become a Captain (so that he can continue supporting Ukitake and Division, since the captain is often sick):
    Damn these websites keeping old xlations... even so, the one I linked was a binktopia xlation so I have trouble believing it was bad. How very annoying as it would make sense either way, Kaien could be a VC turning down a Captain offer or just a seated officer turning down a VC offer. I still tend to go with my gut and believe he is turning down a VC offer just because he is not wearing an armband. Pretty much everywhere else in the past arc the VCs are wearing their armbands, especially around their captains(yes I realized Aizen is not wearing his armband a couple pages later but he is also skulking around).

    But it in any case I guess it doesn't make too much of a difference, the point was that Kaien was considered a genius and may or may not have been considered to take over a captain's seat. Either way, it seems Isshin passes him up and becomes a captain, though it is probably because Kaien never wanted to be a captain, perhaps just wanting to server under Ukitake.

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