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  1. #41
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veLocity- View Post
    This might sound dumb but what did Madara mean there was another way to interpret what the tablet meant?
    Well the story he explains says one god split yin and yang to create balance which was interpenetrated as 2 opposing forces cooperating to create peace.

    The other interpretation is 2 opposing forces combined can create a god that can create peace.


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  2. #42
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    Well, I think the other intrepretation of the saying on the tablet was along those lines that when you posses both Yin and Yiang powers, you can shape the world however you like. I guess this became his dream as he refers to it at the end of the chapter, to obtain that power that can alter the whole world.
    An excellent idea. Which was what Madara set out to do.

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  3. #43
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Glad we confirmed that Madara was indeed aware of the potential in obtaining Hashirama's powers (and goes with the Elder Brother interpretation of consolidating ultimate power as opposed to believing in cooperation between powers). It makes sense why the Rikudou chose the Younger Brother, considering the Rikudou split powers between the Bloodlines (and also the Bijuu) for that reason.

  4. #44
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Some really tantalizing questions:

    1) What powers did the Rikudo possess:-

    a) before he confronted and stopped the Juubi

    b) before he became Jinchuuriki of the 10 tails

    2) How did the Juubi's Sharingan become inheritable by the Elder Son and his offspring?

    3) Is the Younger Son's Life energy also derrived from the Juubi, or was it from Rikudo originally?

    4) If the Juubi is also the source of the Rinnegan, then it seems to superimpose one on the other and display them simultaneously, does that imply that there is another level beyond the Rinnegan that superimposes the sharingan over it, perhaps this mode requires the Juubi's Chakra...IE a Jinchuuriki?

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  5. #45
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Some really tantalizing questions:

    1) What powers did the Rikudo possess:-

    a) before he confronted and stopped the Juubi

    b) before he became Jinchuuriki of the 10 tails

    2) How did the Juubi's Sharingan become inheritable by the Elder Son and his offspring?

    3) Is the Younger Son's Life energy also derrived from the Juubi, or was it from Rikudo originally?

    4) If the Juubi is also the source of the Rinnegan, then it seems to superimpose one on the other and display them simultaneously, does that imply that there is another level beyond the Rinnegan that superimposes the sharingan over it, perhaps this mode requires the Juubi's Chakra...IE a Jinchuuriki?
    1. I believe the Rikudou's power (prior to becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki) will be remarkably similar to Naruto's... maybe fairly substantial stamina and life force (enough to seal/contain the Juubi safely). Maybe the Rikudou was even a Sage, if humans were capable of sensing/wielding Natural Energy at the time prior to the development of Ninjutsu.

    2. Once the Rikudou became the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, I think he was able to wield the full power of its Yin/Yang, meaning its occular powers and its life giving properties. I'm not sure if the Juubi even had an advanced Will, or if it was simply feral; I'm pretty sure the Rikudou never bonded with the Juubi, and created the Bijuu's personalities from his own Spiritual energies when he gave them life.

    3. The Juubi's Sha-Rinnegan is probably the highest level of eye technique; while it might require becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki to awaken that eye, it's also possible that the final factor is Sage chakra. We know that Senju+Uchiha = Rinnegan (and also the combination of their bloodlines grants the power of creation, identical to the Juubi). We know the Juubi is a mass of natural energies (and thus any of its powers could be linked to that, if Natural Energy has unique properties).

    4. Zetsu referred to Nagato as being of the "Senju" lineage. Apparently this also granted Nagato the power to sync with the Mazou, despite lacking Mokuton. Was that due to the Rinnegan embodying the necessary Yin/Yang, or did the Rinnegan provide the Yin and Nagato's Uzumaki heritage provided the Yang?

    5. I think the Mokuton comes from the Juubi (beyond in the "Juubi created everything hahaha" sense). The Mokuton is the power to create Life, which is definitely a key aspect for a progenitor such as the Juubi. It's the most important part of the Senju bloodline, and the key ability to control the Juubi. Neither of the Uchiha used their Sharingan/Rinnegan... they rely on channeling their mental energies through the Mokuton link.

  6. #46
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    One last point about Tobirama.

    Madara left Hashirama believing that if Tobirama became the Second Hokage he would wipe out the Uchihas. In the end, Tobirama did not wipe out the Uchiha, even as distrusting to them as he was. So what did happen to the Uchiha?

    If Tobi had not brought the Fox into Konoha, there would not have been the increased level of surveillance on the Uchiha, prompting the Uchiha to plot a coup, which then led to their destruction.

    I have to ask, What happened to Madara's desire to protect the Uchiha? If Tobi was acting as Madara's avatar, and if he was carrying out Madara's will, then the reason Madara gave for leavibg Konoha is Empty, null, and Void. Since Madara's fears regarding Tobirama did not Materialise, and Tobirama did not kill the Uchihas, Did Madara via his avatar Tobi trying to force the hands of the Hokage by placing suspicion on the Uchiha.

    Now there is a chance that Tobi was not acting on Madara's behalf by using the Fox to launch an attack on Konoha, but it does strike me as odd that since his resurrection as an Edo, Madara has not enquired about the Uchiha that he cared so much about. Certainly he would have noriced that there weren't any Uchiha ninjas in the field.

    So now, If there are no longer any Uchihas to protect, what then is the purpose for which Madara sought the power of Rikudo? Is it believeable that He now really Cares so much about the Ninja world (devoid of Uchihas ) that he wants to protect it by putting it in an Eternal Genjutsu of false peace?

    Nah, I think Madara has given up on any lofty motives except one. He just wants to Play God.

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  7. #47
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ I guess we need to consider what Tobi said to Minato, that he intends to use the Kyubi to start war and to bring peace. Minato has stopped him at that time, thus he might have been forced to use the Uchiha against Konoha, seeing as Itachi (and others) have clearly explained that their coup would lead to war one way or another, regardless of it's conclusion, thus the Uchiha's were annihilated before they managed to pull it off (perhaps this was a back up plan in case the Kyubi was recaptured). It does seem that Itachi would have attempted to annihilate them regardless of Tobi's cooperation (making the coup to war plan void), which he chose to cooperate in order to obtain Itachi/Sasuke and their (the rest of the clan) eyes, since this way he would gain something, while they were going to die anyway. The information itself was highly valuable (which he could only obtain by being present at that time and place), seeing as Zetsu cannot move into Konoha undetected because of the barrier placed over it (it's possible that other villages, besides samurais, have those, seeing as we never have seen Zetsu in any village, IIRC).

    I think that Madara believes that the world has rejected him (his clan, the country, other ninjas and the like) and in accordance he rejected the world as well, transforming his dream from "changing the current world", into "creating a new one". I think we could use the same philosophy that Obito used in this case, they are going to be in the new world anyway, so it doesn't matter what happens to them now.



  8. #48
    GAI SENSEI 4 HOKAGE bankai's Avatar
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    great chapter. i wonder what tobirama was up to. maybe he was the one who created roots or anbu
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  9. #49
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    Man, Tobirama is a badass. He seems like he would be the war veteran father who pushes his beliefs, ideals, and ways to his male offspring. Regardless of how his actions have affected the Ninja World, he is one of my favorite Hokages, my no.1 being Hiruzen.

  10. #50
    So the split happen because Tobirama was a discriminatory idiot huh? Shame felt bad for the split between two old friends, wonder if Naruto and Sasuke can remake that bond that was lost.

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