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  1. #31
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    In the Arc where Shikamaru Killed The Zombie guy, he said that the land where he buried Hidan was an Isolate forest that only members of the Nara clan ever visited. This reference does not prove Tobirama's purity one way or another, but it does tend to cement the fact that other Clans had areas Isolated for their exclusive use.

    There is no doubt that Tobirama distrusted the Uchiha and kept an eye on them, BUT I have yet to recollect an actual act of Malice from Tobirama to the Uchiha. He did not harras them, did not imprison them, did not forbid them from town, or from participating in missions.

    I will go as far as to say that Tobirama's bigotry was mainly in his mind and attitude, and not in the things he did. I'll subscribe to this view until some new acts come out that show Tobirama actually performing an act of harm on the Uchiha.

    In the end, It was an Uchiha afteral that brought the Kyuubi into Konoha, and this suspiscion is what made Konoha even more distrusting of Uchihas.

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  2. #32
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Also, think back to how Tobirama originally address Saskue. It wasnt until Sakue said he considered destorying the Leaf, when Tobi claimed that this "Uchiha child" had subcummed to the "Curse" (or something along those lines). Which, to me means, he gives Uchihas a chance. However, a frown on an Uchiha would make Tobirama worried.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon Spade View Post
    Also, think back to how Tobirama originally address Saskue. It wasnt until Sakue said he considered destorying the Leaf, when Tobi claimed that this "Uchiha child" had subcummed to the "Curse" (or something along those lines). Which, to me means, he gives Uchihas a chance. However, a frown on an Uchiha would make Tobirama worried.
    Tobirama seems intense and severe but not evil. If anything, he takes the shinobi life more seriously than any one character we've met. The guy could definitely benefit from a sense of humor tho

  4. #34
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Well, the Uchiha Police HQ was placed in a former prison and everyone knew about it, it in itself was screaming with Tobirama's real intention and desires in accordance to Uchiha. It seems like it was done after Hashirama's death, since he didn't know and isn't pleased about it. I'm not sure if supposedly such a smart person could make such a fatal mistake unknowingly, but nevertheless, his true intentions, even if not known by himself, are quite clear.

    Tobirama is simply a Danozu, but in difference to Danzou, Tobirama was more successful and even decades after his death, the aftermath of his choices and actions ruin lives and plunges the world into a turmoil. After all, they desired nothing more than the good of the village, unfortunately by using anything within their grasp, in Tobirama's case, even the souls of those that were resting in peace, along with the sacrificed lifes in order for it to work of course.


    BTW after rereading some chapters, Hashirama mentions that he spoiled his granddaughter, while we know that Mito gave birth (it's unknown if for the first time) while already being a Jinchuriki, so he must have lived at least 20 years after the Vote, assuming that Tsunade's parent was born at the time that Mito was an a jinchurki. Seeing as we don't see Mito anywhere in the current flashback, it does seem to be that way.

    Tobirama's comment about Oro's description of Tobirama'a achievements, seems to suggest that Tobirama might be in fact directly responsible for Oro turning against the leaf. Perhaps ones that kept company to the Uchiha have suffered greatly as well from Tobirama's actions, ones like Oro's parents perhaps ?



  5. #35
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I don't know Zero. He gave them Quarters at what used to be a prison, that is symbolic at worst. But please show us an actual Hostile act by Tobirama. Danzo on the other hand ordered their deaths. How can we compare the two?

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  6. #36
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I don't know Zero. He gave them Quarters at what used to be a prison, that is symbolic at worst. But please show us an actual Hostile act by Tobirama. Danzo on the other hand ordered their deaths. How can we compare the two?
    Simply, by the fact that Tobirama himself said that planing a coup brought them a well deserved death and destruction, this means that the same verdict would have been made by Danzou and Tobirama. It's just that at Tobirama's time, they weren't at that point yet, since there were still those that clearly remembered Hashirama and his ideals. The only difference would have been that Tobirama would have used their eyes for Zombie Summoning rather than implanting into his arm, which is much much worse since then they would be denied peaceful rest, forced to become a puppets of the man that detest them the most. Although it's possible that Danzou would have handled it better by minimizing the losses to a single clan, but employing a powerful Uchiha to pit against them, while Tobirama might not have done that, allowing for an all out inside war, that would lead to an attack from the outside, quite likely leading to the village's destruction.

    Now let's take a look at Hiruzen. The 3rd even after learning of their plans, still tried to reason with them, tried to protect as many lives as possible. The decision of the Uchiha's genocide was a last resort, when everything else have failed and not the first thought of action at the spot. It's likely that Hashirama would try to do something similar to Hiruzen and it is quite likely the same with Minato and Tsunde. This means that Tobirama is the only Hokage that would annihilate the Uchiha at the spot for planing or even mentioning a coup, even though he himself had no small contribution in leading them to it.



  7. #37
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Zero,

    Yes I do believe that Tobirama would anihilate coup plotters had he been the Hokage, but I do take issue with the notion that anything he personally did either Harmed the Uchihas as a group, or directly led to them plotting a rebellion.

    I think a fairer review of Naruto history would show that the strict watching/monitoring of the Uchiha happened under Sandaime Sarutobi, after the 9Tails attack. The suspiscion cast upon the Uchiha being the Handiwork of Tobi, Madara's Avatar.

    And yes, if Hashirama had been the Sandaime, there would have been no Slaughter. He probably could have defeated all the Uchiha fighters all by himself, and then gone over to beat up Raikage, just for extra excersise.

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  8. #38
    Senior Member veLocity-'s Avatar
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    This might sound dumb but what did Madara mean there was another way to interpret what the tablet meant?

  9. #39
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    I Honestly do not think Tobirama is being depicted as a villian character, but as a principle of the classical ninja, who believes that you must fight and kill other clans to gain peace, the opposite of Hashirama.

    In a sense, Hashirama's friendship to Madara weakened him, because if he had killed Madara then, none of his plot to control the world would have happened. Yet, the senju clan would have gained more power through violence not a truce, which hashirama didn't want.

    Also, i do not think Madara was evil or good. I think he had a controlling personality, if he isn't the best and the leader, he will kill to get to than place.

  10. #40
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by veLocity- View Post
    This might sound dumb but what did Madara mean there was another way to interpret what the tablet meant?
    Well, I think the other intrepretation of the saying on the tablet was along those lines that when you posses both Yin and Yiang powers, you can shape the world however you like. I guess this became his dream as he refers to it at the end of the chapter, to obtain that power that can alter the whole world.
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