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  1. #71
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I think that the answer we are searching for is that Obito was influenced by the Zetsu that bonded to him, by the trauma of seeing Rin die, and by the awakening of his MS. The dergree and extend of imballance in him would then vary up and down over time.

    To my mind there was no need for him to Kill the Uchihas ( he had no grudge against them as he claimed to Sasuke, the grudge was Madara's and not his). He also had no reason to tell Konan whom he was killing (without witnesses), that he was Madara, and he had no call to say that he had waited very long for the moment when he released the fox from Kushina, that would be Madara's line, not Obito's.

    Just as scholars sit down and discuss literary masterpieces, I think it's legitimate to discus the issues in Naruto too. I would like to see Kishimoto to expressly say in the Manga something to the effect that Obito was influenced by and sometimes, but not always, somewhat confused into a personality or Identity disconnected state, by the mental stresses he experienced, magnified by the Memories of the Zetsu he absorbed and the "Evil" Chakra of his MS. I think that such a statement would do much for the legacy of this great work of literary genius.
    Rather than Zetsu, the rods itself might have been influencing him. Still, we don't know what the implication of the black rods coming out out of his right-hashirama side at the time of the rampage meant. Did it mean that Madara's will and influence over Obito grew, since the rods grew as well ? Or did it mean that Obito's MS-level mental energies have pushed out the black rods (thus Madara's will) outside of his body, severing/nulling any influence Madara had on him ? What's more, after the rampage, when Obito had decided to help Madara, were the rods completely pushed out, or did they return to his body ?

    We need to remember that Nagato himself was strongly influence by Madara's will, simply looking at the sheer amount of black rods attached to his body. This is why Tobi himself needed to check what caused a change in Nagato, who was so strongly influenced.

    It was suggest a few times, that Naruto's Uzumaki-like Life Energy (or whatever he has) is what makes people want to talk to him and spew their guts out. It is likely that by sending/emanating those energies, he decreased the influence that Madara's will/black rods had on Nagato. It is quite likely that Hashirama himself was influencing Madara each time they were close to each other, which is also hinted in the recent flashbacks. This would as well explain what Tobi meant by saying that he sees Hashirama in Naruto, in accordance to changing Nagato's mind.



  2. #72
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Rather than Zetsu, the rods itself might have been influencing him. Still, we don't know what the implication of the black rods coming out out of his right-hashirama side at the time of the rampage meant. Did it mean that Madara's will and influence over Obito grew, since the rods grew as well ? Or did it mean that Obito's MS-level mental energies have pushed out the black rods (thus Madara's will) outside of his body, severing/nulling any influence Madara had on him ? What's more, after the rampage, when Obito had decided to help Madara, were the rods completely pushed out, or did they return to his body ?

    We need to remember that Nagato himself was strongly influence by Madara's will, simply looking at the sheer amount of black rods attached to his body. This is why Tobi himself needed to check what caused a change in Nagato, who was so strongly influenced.

    It was suggest a few times, that Naruto's Uzumaki-like Life Energy (or whatever he has) is what makes people want to talk to him and spew their guts out. It is likely that by sending/emanating those energies, he decreased the influence that Madara's will/black rods had on Nagato. It is quite likely that Hashirama himself was influencing Madara each time they were close to each other, which is also hinted in the recent flashbacks. This would as well explain what Tobi meant by saying that he sees Hashirama in Naruto, in accordance to changing Nagato's mind.
    Personally, I think the Sharingan-influenced Mokuton grows the rods; they're a sign of Yin/Yang "Rikudou" style jutsu at work, available to anyone who controls both bloodlines. When Obito activated his Mokuton and channeled his Uchiha chakra to its fullest in a rage, his "power-up of rage" grew those spikes.

    Nagato spawned the rods when he summoned the Gedo Mazou; I believe this means he was linking his Senju/Uzumaki chakra (and his Uchiha Rinnegan) to the Mokuton-based statue (also in a fit of rage, generally meaning enhanced spiritual energies). Basically, it's similar to Obito's spawning of the rods.

    Madara's "Will" was passed on through Obito purely verbally, not with a chakra aura, I believe. Madara and Obito's outlook appeals to weakness, fear, and despair... Naruto appeals to courage, love, and hope. Nagato was simply not so far gone that Naruto couldn't reach him, and at the end of the day Naruto's influence is more nurturing to peace of mind and life in general... Nagato wanted to truly believe in something, and Naruto helped him find that strength within himself. But it can be said that Naruto's healing Will cleansed Madara's from Nagato, even without chakra influence.

    But you're right, chakra responds to such Will, and Naruto's has been said to be "warm" and comforting. I bet the chakra cloaks he shared with the alliance are helping them resist fear/despair in the face of the Juubi/Uchiha duo, and it's truly as if Naruto has shared his mental strength with them, in a way. Of course, Naruto gets a lot of his mental strength from the presence of his friends, which is another difference between him and Madara/Obito, and one Kishi drives home pretty hard. However, if Naruto's presence is helping them resist, it's because they can feel that they are not alone, and are physically/emotionally stronger with the chakra... Madara and Obito aren't physically exterting a chakra influence over anyone, it's a mind game.

  3. #73
    Pervy Sage bluntman_exe's Avatar
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    I'm dying to know the origin of Hashirama's mokuton just as much as anyone. However the point of the flashback is to answer Sasuke's question "what is a village, what does it mean to be a shinobi?" and considering that Sasuke and Orochimaru don't have all day to shoot the breeze, the Hash-man's gotta stay focussed if his words are to spare sasuke from the sort of douchebag fate that has seemed inevitable for so long. I am hoping that the former hokage get a chance to hit the battlefield and attack Madara, and in that we may get a flashback or a statement that sheds some light on the origins of hashirama's keikei genkai.

  4. #74
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ I'm preparing myself for Hashirama Gaiden after everything is said and done, since there are more important things to show than arc-long flashbacks.



  5. #75
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluntman_exe View Post
    I'm dying to know the origin of Hashirama's mokuton just as much as anyone. However the point of the flashback is to answer Sasuke's question "what is a village, what does it mean to be a shinobi?" and considering that Sasuke and Orochimaru don't have all day to shoot the breeze, the Hash-man's gotta stay focussed if his words are to spare sasuke from the sort of douchebag fate that has seemed inevitable for so long. I am hoping that the former hokage get a chance to hit the battlefield and attack Madara, and in that we may get a flashback or a statement that sheds some light on the origins of hashirama's keikei genkai.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    ^ I'm preparing myself for Hashirama Gaiden after everything is said and done, since there are more important things to show than arc-long flashbacks.
    You guys are quite right. There is a war going on, and the purpose of this Session is indeed to answer Sasuke's questions. I also think that there may be some Other Hidden Significance to the village, or at least to the Location of the village, that compelled Orochimaru to seek to destroy the village. In addittion, I am eager to know what Sasuke's reaction would be if and when he finds out that the 9Tails attack was Instigated and directed by Tobi.

    Basically Sasuke knows that Tobi assisted Itachi in killing the Uchiha clan, yet he has shown no wrath toward Tobi. Of course Tobi also lied directly to Sasuke that the Uchiha were being blamed for the Nine Tails attack, which according to him was just an act of nature. I wonder if the focus of Sasuke's wrath would shift from the Village to Tobi and Madara if he knew that Tobi literally created the event that lead to the village intensifying its mistrust of the Uchiha Clan?

    Finally, a Hashirama gaiden would be nice .

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