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  1. #11
    Senior Member Anubiz632's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Gah... after going slowly and putting a lot of effort into the start of the flashbacks, Kishi then speeds through a lot of the major stuff and rushes the character development. It's a lot like how the start of the Obito flashbacks were so slow, and then suddenly the next 3-4 chapters felt like too much happened too fast, with little explanation.

    It'd be nice to hear more than just "After that, Madara started to change" after spending so much time seeing the kid Madara. And I'd have liked to see Madara awaken his Mangekyou / Hashirama awaken his Mokuton (the Mokuton is particularly important, seeing as he's still the only Senju with it that we know of).

    Madara's descent into darkness would have been cool, but since it all happened in this chapter with little explanation, it seems kinda contrived (and making MADARA's evil seem contrived is pretty hard to do).

    Cool that Tobirama killed Izuna... it's symbolic, but it's also clear that Madara will have an extreme grudge against Tobirama, and will only reinforce Tobirama's distrust of the Uchiha... he probably sees Madara in every shadow. I wonder if Tobirama feels guilty about killing Izuna, after seeing Madara's level of hatred? Maybe he can see, just a little, why Hashirama's way of doing things would have been better?

    And Tobirama used "Hiraishingiri" to deliver the finishing blow on Izuna!! Incoming speculation on the nature of Tobirama's space/time jutsu. Perhaps he teleports his sword strike forward, making it an almost unavoidable strike?

    Damn, you wrapped up my sentiments exactly. Thanks bro lol!

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  3. #13
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I just can't see Tobirama feeling any Guilt for killing Izuna, after all these are battle hardened warriors who have killed many many times over, and the two of them were locked in a fair One-on-One battle at a time of war.

    Tobirama of course never trusted the Uchiha from the start, and his decisions as 2nd Hokage were probably reflective of that distrust. Furthermore, we have no knowledge of how Hashirama died, who knows if an Uchiha was behind it. If this is the case, it would Just have hardened Tobirama's negativity toward the Uchiha.

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  4. #14
    Senior Member rinnebadass's Avatar
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    So... This battle was the one at the VOTE?

    I'm a bit lost here. It doesn't look like that battle, so Hashirama didn't kill himself or his brother (Nidaime was hokage AFTER him).
    Looks like this was a previous battle, before the one at the VOTE.

    Looks like the first didn't want to make things even. He couldn't kill himself at THAT time. Maybe we will realize that he killed himself after that VOTE battle(after this chapter, there's no way he would lose on a regular battle), but Madara doesn't know yet.(?) Maybe Madara will learn about that, stop the 10 tails and go to heaven. I mean, he has the rinnegan and the 10 tails now, maybe he is stronger than Hashirama but there's no way he could handle a talk-no-jutsu like that.

    Then, it's Sasuke's time. I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto ends killing himself for the sake of eternal peace.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    So... This battle was the one at the VOTE?

    I'm a bit lost here. It doesn't look like that battle, so Hashirama didn't kill himself or his brother (Nidaime was hokage AFTER him).
    Looks like this was a previous battle, before the one at the VOTE.

    Looks like the first didn't want to make things even. He couldn't kill himself at THAT time. Maybe we will realize that he killed himself after that VOTE battle(after this chapter, there's no way he would lose on a regular battle), but Madara doesn't know yet.(?) Maybe Madara will learn about that, stop the 10 tails and go to heaven. I mean, he has the rinnegan and the 10 tails now, maybe he is stronger than Hashirama but there's no way he could handle a talk-no-jutsu like that.

    Then, it's Sasuke's time. I wouldn't be surprised if Naruto ends killing himself for the sake of eternal peace.
    No, this battle was before the village was formed, probably the last of the Uchiha Clan vs. the Senju Clan.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Not much in this chapter. The last page however, as usual, leaves us with something to think about and in my opinion this is where Edo Tensei comes into play.
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  7. #17
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    Not much in this chapter. The last page however, as usual, leaves us with something to think about and in my opinion this is where Edo Tensei comes into play.
    That was my first thoughts too. I originally thought, damn Hashirama is going to kill himself which would lead to Tobirama coming up with the edo-tensei. Then i thought about it, the village hasnt even been formed yet so there is no way Hashirama is going to kill himself here....
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  8. #18
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    The Madara/Hashirama relationship is going to parallel the same sentiments Sasuke/Naruto shared at the VotE. Sasuke couldn't acknowledge Naruto because Naruto hadn't shared his pain of losing loved ones, even though they both had been bonded by experiencing loneliness. Likewise, while originally Hashirama/Madara were originally connected by the loss of their siblings (and, in Hashirama's mnd, by their shared dream of peace, although Madara only cared about protecting his brother), once Madara lost his last sibling and Hashirama kept his, Madara could no longer accept their suffering as "equal"... the irony is that, just as Naruto suffers from the loss of Sasuke, whom he sees as a brother, Hashirama suffers from the loss of his friend Madara. And Just like Sasuke, Madara refuses to acknowledge the loss of that friendship, focusing only on his blood relatives.

    The good news is that Naruto has experienced some of the same pain as Sasuke, thanks to Nagato killing Jiraiya, and chose a path other than vengeance. And Naruto has also suffered losses at the hands of an Uchiha, yet he doesn't hate the Uchiha clan. Naruto's wisdom, in these regards, is greater than Hashirama's. I believe his ideology is what will allow him to bridge the gap between Uchiha/Senju and create the peace that the Rikudou desired. However, I also believe that Sasuke will likewise overcome his clan's ideological limitations (perhaps with a little nudging from Hashirama/Naruto), and meet Naruto halfway.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daemon Spade View Post
    That was my first thoughts too. I originally thought, damn Hashirama is going to kill himself which would lead to Tobirama coming up with the edo-tensei. Then i thought about it, the village hasnt even been formed yet so there is no way Hashirama is going to kill himself here....
    Not exactly what I meant. They could sacrifice a senju person for reviving an uchiha - Izuna comes to my mind as the biggest candidate.
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  10. #20
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    Not exactly what I meant. They could sacrifice a senju person for reviving an uchiha - Izuna comes to my mind as the biggest candidate.
    Well it's funny that Madara Knew/Knows How to do Edo Tensei, but he never used it to bring back his brother. Even now that he has Rinnegans, plus un-ending Chakra, and Should be able to do Rinne-Tensei, He is still not talking about reviving his brother Izuna.

    As an Edo Zombie with Rinnegans, Madara could theoretically revive everybody that has ever lived and died in the Narutoverse, Right?

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