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  1. #21
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Something else that happened to cross my mind. I hope we get to see Sasuke Sarutobi in these flashbacks. It will probably be when Hashirama is older and making allies but would be cool to see.


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  2. #22
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    Perhaps Madara and Izuna killed their brothers in order to get the mangekyo in the first place? Or someone else close to them. They had to awaken their mangekyo somehow. And that was never explained.

  3. #23
    I wonder if the reason the senju surname is dead is because they decided it was best for the clan to take on different surnames. Maybe hashirama instituted that so that the senju clan wouldnt be targeted if the village were to fall. Hashirama was around for the birth of the Sannin and all three don't carry surnames it seems.

  4. #24
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    The data book is woefully inaccurate and inconsistent. It's been the culprit of many timeline fails in doscussions around here. It's basically on the level of anime filler scripted by the interns. Kakkuzu, in the manga, was a villain.. a cool and calculated sort with the modus of a more refined bad guy... getting money. It's the guise of the neutral bounty hunter that seemimgly secures his innocence up front but he is a grizzly murderer underneath his lucky part of "businessman".

    Thank you POW, ive been asking about sarutobi's dad for months. Seems the manga might be poised to make something of it.

    The shinobi style of engagement in these flashbacks is a far cry from the tactics employed by later village era shinobi. Squads dont appear defined by premeditated roles, gennin level kids in the thick of the brutality, worst of all, medical jutsu is decades away!

    Anyone curious as i am about tobirama's authorative vocal presence? We have seen him exclaim at hashirama and now their dad and each time he received their obedience! The "chakra spiking" a couple chapters ago leads me to believe he was opening gates. The senju durability would suit that very well (not to mention edo durability, lol!).

    And we still havent received further acknowledgement from minato's deductions which attributed both tobirama and madara as space time users (high level ones at that!)

    A sharingan was used against itama, that means his thoughts, knowledge, memories are all available to the uchiha surrounding him. If madara or his family were linked to itama's death then hashirama would likely have been noticed in the genjutsu. It may be why madara can understand hashirama as well as even wanting to.


    Another tidbit about the stone throwing: i realized today that on top of all we know it to be on symbol or metaphor or what have you, it's also a calculated illustration of madara WITHOUT sharingam! the accompanying idea to the stone throwing 's primary meaning is a stress thst madara did not copy the stone throwing with the sharingan. If sevetal years ago we saw this with sasuke and naruto we wpuld all be saying sasuke copied naruto skipping his stone!

    The stone skipping has made a nicely done package of many things kishi wants to convey. Madara's unwoken sharingan also behaves as a reminder he is still innocent, kishi is indirectly but very intentionally tieing this to hashirama referring to sasuke as a pure uchiha child. Sasuke has reached the same point as madara when he began decent into darkness amd will ne hashirama's second chance.

    P.s. the death of itama pages shows the 5 uchiha from behind, two of the hair styles could pass for izuna amd that group would likely have then been madara's 4 brothers and their father.

    Madara saying "had 4 brothers" could also be figurative, dealing with very deep rooted and painful disagreements, exactly as hashirama had with his father. Madara obviously has innocent ideals and not seeing "eye to eye" with his brothets would serve "had 4 brothers". He sees the hypocritic handling of love that just leads to more death.

    I also just realized that "hidden leaf" is play on hashirama and madara's signatures
    When you conceptually cross the "uchiha fan" with "hashirama's mokuton" you get.... a leaf!
    Last edited by knife eater; 02-27-2013 at 03:37 PM.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    It is consistent with what Tobirama said some previous chapters ago. That none treasured love more than the Uchiha. And that the trauma of loosing it is what triggered the sharingan. So, it isn't until they loose love that they are consumed with hate.

  6. #26
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Oh nice, Madara's last words in this chapter, might also mean that Hashirama is no longer alone with his beliefs of peace through alliance and understanding.

    It's quite possible that the Sarutobi took Uchiha's side in the war before the village was formed. Remember that the leader of the rebellion, gave his son that name of a legendary Sarutobi, not to mention that the Sarutobi are almost as skilled in Fire jutsu ad the Uchihas are.

    The hair of Hashirama's youngest brother, reminds of the hair that the previous 8-tail jinchurki had.

    Kawarama might have been one of Hashirama's brothers, seeing as it is Hashirama's family that cries over his grave.

    The secret spot that the brothers are meeting at, might be the Humid Bone Forest. You can notice that the place at which they are, have a completely different trees and some of them do look a little like bones.

  7. #27
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Oh nice, Madara's last words in this chapter, might also mean that Hashirama is no longer alone with his beliefs of peace through alliance and understanding.

    It's quite possible that the Sarutobi took Uchiha's side in the war before the village was formed. Remember that the leader of the rebellion, gave his son that name of a legendary Sarutobi, not to mention that the Sarutobi are almost as skilled in Fire jutsu ad the Uchihas are.

    The hair of Hashirama's youngest brother, reminds of the hair that the previous 8-tail jinchurki had.

    Kawarama might have been one of Hashirama's brothers, seeing as it is Hashirama's family that cries over his grave.

    The secret spot that the brothers are meeting at, might be the Humid Bone Forest. You can notice that the place at which they are, have a completely different trees and some of them do look a little like bones.
    I was thinking that too for some reason. It must be near the vote right? That is near wherre the stones are skpped but not the section of river that becomes waterfall.

    Anyway, the image cleanup in both mangapanda and mangashare have their unique quirks that stand out after compression. One is blurry and the other shows saturated blacks (blobby filter). It was hard to make out the background and trees to discern humid bone forest.
    _____
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  8. #28
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I was thinking that too for some reason. It must be near the vote right? That is near wherre the stones are skpped but not the section of river that becomes waterfall.

    Anyway, the image cleanup in both mangapanda and mangashare have their unique quirks that stand out after compression. One is blurry and the other shows saturated blacks (blobby filter). It was hard to make out the background and trees to discern humid bone forest.
    I meant the place were the Senju brothers were hanging out. You can clearly notice how different and very humid-forest like is the place that they were hanging out alone, compared to the rest of the scenery (graveyard, river, battleground etc.).

    Here look at the bottom left panel and the next page:
    Spoiler!


    Kishi specifically gave out one panel of one tree and one full page of a different background, so that the readers would notice this. Since it is presented to be really different from all other sceneries in this chapter, it is most likely important. It almost seems as the place they hang out, is almost like a place from a different climate zone. It's possible that they have used reverse summoning to get there. Anyway, it does seem like their secret hideout since there are no adults there, while they bash the adult's behavior and believes, suggesting that they are safe from their ears.

    It is possible that the river (Madara's and Hashirama's special? place) is how originally the place of VOTE looked like. It was Hashirama that pulled out Madara from the location near the village, so he might have chosen that spot as their final confrontation.

  9. #29
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Also the Mangastream translation of young Hashirma-Madara was hilarious "Your ego is just so big you have a god complex"

    This Hagorormo clan I'm curious about. I'm sure everyone noticed the armor looks very similar to Cloud village shinobi. According to translations "The word "Hagoromo" (羽衣) literally means "angel's raiment" or with regards to birds, refer to their wings or plumage. "

    The angle bird connection to the sky or clouds could mean they are he founders of the Cloud and the Raikage's ancestors.

    Also apparently their symbol was in the flash back from several chapters ago.




    All we know is they opposed the Senju clan like the Uchiha who did so later. This suggest the Senju clans skills made them a target of other clans even at this time.


    I hope we get to see some of the other clans like the ancient Hyuuga, Nara, Akamichi, Yamanaka & defiantly Sarutobi.


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  10. #30
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximo View Post
    I have a feeling that Madara and Izuna were forced to kill theyre remaining brothers as it was stated several times in the manga that Uchihas had this kind of wretched ways of obtaining more power. There had to be something drastic to corrupt the young Madara that pretty much had the same ideals like Naruto. Hashirama doesnt seem to be stupid as a kid so I assume theres the difference between him and Naruto.
    Wow, good point. Wonder if it happened.

    To think, in the mentality of Uchiha's, the parents had the kids so their other children could kill them. It is a war, better to lose one son instead of two. They truly are cursed.

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

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