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  1. #11
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    I enjoy each generation having its own central figures being developed variations of the previous generation's themes. Atm we are seeing the strongest example of tobirama's theme that danzo developed after eschewing the "silver lining" that tobirama posessed. Im still aware and asserting that danzo was way more an a** hole than tobirama and several degrees more aware of the darkness and negativity his actions would foster. Hewas totally into it! Tobirama had hashirama rub off on him a little and when making up his own mind; was arriving at answers that were as of then still untested yet formed with a pinch of noble sentiment of solving war and atrocity.

    I get the impression that the pre-village era was of many powerful shinobi and powerful ninja were more common. With uchiha running in gangs with multiple sharingan users.. it makes me think that the village era was to slowly remove the power from humanity as each country weakened considerably after every war (most cases) hashirama would likely have had a vision of diminishing jutsu so ppl could calm down and stop killing each other's kids. Being born with shinobi powers only guarantees the shinobi affairs and circumstances of a danger and pain filled life. The less shinobi born then the less shinobi die. I can totally see this as a deliberate outcome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakritze View Post
    That's true, but one question: Did we ever see a "true" villain? I can only think of Oro, but maybe only as long we don't know his story.
    Yes, we had "true villains". Hidan and kakazu. To a lesser extent, the gold and silver brothers.
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  2. #12
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    where there is food
    Sad, but I guess that is to be expected, If Naruto had passed that doppleganger test when he was suppose to he would have been 9 when he became a shinobi.
    Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off

  3. #13
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Mar 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Yes, we had "true villains". Hidan and kakazu. To a lesser extent, the gold and silver brothers.
    Good point!

  4. #14
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Haha was great seeing the comparisons that Madara was always in the shadow of Hashrima like the other parallels in history : Danzou & Sarutobi , Jirayia & Orochimaru, Obito & Kakashi, Naruto & Sasuke

    - Hagoromo clan I wonder if they go into detail

    - Kawarama ....?

    - We finally get to their father who trained the Hashirama & Tobirama hehe I always wondered if it would ever be revealed.

    - Itama Senju the 3rd member of the trio and the youngest brother.

    - Madara had 2 other brothers interesting...

    - So it was Madara's idea as well to form an alliance which is why Hashirama originally sent the alliance offer.

    - The conflict will arise when he learns a Uchiha killed his brother and Madara brothers may have been killed by Senju as well.

    I loved this flashback chapter I hope we get to see Madara's dad...It would be interesting if Hashirama's father kills Madara's dad and that's how they become rivals.

    Fire type

    What chakra type are you?

  5. #15
    Senior Member Yoru's Avatar
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    Mar 2008
    Cool chapter. When isaw the flashbacks starting one week ago i thought they would be lame, but kishi proved me wrong. Madara and Hashirama were an interesting pair of friends back in the days. Madara was actually more similar to obito than i would have thought. He wasn't acting all serious like sasuke.
    I also think the senju clan was a bunch of cold blooded send children to war...
    (In the story i developed some years ago about samurais, the men would never allow a child on the battlefield. The official age for a child to become a smurai is 13 years old, as the tradition wants. They even consider sending women at war as a heinous crime, because like they say "It is a man's duty to protect their wives and daughters. Sacrificing their peaceful life for the country would be a huge dishonor for our ideals". Ironically, the protagonist is a 13 years old girl who becomes samurai, because there's no one better than her in the dojo, plus she has some innate powers)
    But this was just an insignificant information i felt like adding. XD

  6. #16
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    Nov 2008
    An ok chapter, good to get a little back story but i was hoping for a little more.

    I am going to go with: It was Madaras older brother (with the scar on the face) who killed Harshimas little brother, Harashima will meet him, find out about it and kill him. Madara will then hear about it and that will cause their rift. It would explain why Madara went nuts at Harshima when his brother was mentioned, i mean if he was talking about Izuna it was not like Harshima was the one who plucked out his eyes - he was not directly responsible for that. Harshima mentioning it should not have annoyed him so, unless he killed one of Madaras siblings. It would go with the theme that Naruto is the first to actually forgive his enemy and to complete something that Harashima could not, he had to take his revenge (making him a poor shinobi in his eyes).

    In regards to the true villian Kakazu would not fit into that catergory either, it has been a while since i read the data book but as i understand it he worked hard for his village and was rising through the ranks. He was then was told to assasinate Harshima. When he failed, the village turned on him and tried to kill him. In response he stole a forbidden scroll and learnt the black cords technique that he uses and used it to kill the ones who ordered his death. He then became a missing Nin. I bet even if we were given Hidans backstory we would find he suffered some bad shit and it made him the way he was.
    Quote Originally Posted by [JUiCE] View Post
    The virginity is strong in this one.

  7. #17
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Aug 2007

    Children being used in war even happens under the village system. Kakashi and friends where only 13 and some kids become gennin or chunnin as early as 6 or 7. The old warring states period the clans couldn't rely on some huge group on ninja but only themselves so even kids had to be trained up to develop & take dangerous missions.

    The Senju were not cold blooded but the harsh reality shaped their values same as other clans as it was a time of constant war and bloodshed. They are developing their shinobi skills so they have chance at survival in the era of war they lived in. However this was the fathers or adult perspective which tends to represent the status quo of reality.

    The children at least Hashirama, Tobirama & Madara had different view points as young people often see the world in more idealistic terms than adults who have had to adjust their values to reality. This is why change often comes from youth who are still have not yet conformed to the status quo.

    3 different perspectives :

    Hashirama = Feels that an alliance by making agreements is the way to end the wars

    Tobirama = Thinks that fiery emotions cloud more rational judgement and should be repressed. Shinobi should create rules to guide them towards a more civil outcome.

    Madara = Only by understanding each others feeling and real intentions can people learn to trust each other

    -You can see some similarities to Yahiko/Nagato and Madara
    -Danzou's extreme interpretation of Tobirama's ideals


    You are correct about Kakkuza that he was assigned a mission to assassinate Hashirama but he failed and was imprisoned as punishment. To my knowledge there was no translation about having him suppose to be executed but he was defiantly locked up and that's why he felt betrayed and broke out and stole the Hidden Waterfalls secret jutsu. Then killed the village elders and took their hearts.

    Fire type

    What chakra type are you?

  8. #18
    Senior Member Kenny Bones's Avatar
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    Feb 2012
    Trondheim, Norway, Norway
    I liked this chapter
    BUT, after reading the mangastream translation, what did Madara mean when he said "Or rather, had 4 brothers..."
    He HAD four brothers? But they're dead? Soo, Izuna is where? Wasn't the two of them about the same age? Izuna couldn't have been dead already? Cause that would mean that Madara has the eternal mangekyo already at this point? Izuna must have been born at that point. In the previous flashbacks we've seen, it didn't seem as though Izuna could have been born as much as 7 years after Madara?

  9. #19
    Senior Member Maximo's Avatar
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    Jul 2008
    Slovakia, not Slovenia - LEARN THE FUCKING DIFFERENCE !!!
    I have a feeling that Madara and Izuna were forced to kill theyre remaining brothers as it was stated several times in the manga that Uchihas had this kind of wretched ways of obtaining more power. There had to be something drastic to corrupt the young Madara that pretty much had the same ideals like Naruto. Hashirama doesnt seem to be stupid as a kid so I assume theres the difference between him and Naruto.
    Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, Fairy Tail, Claymore, Ao No Exorcist, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Gamaran, Toriko, Vinland Saga, Gantz, Wolf Guy, Deadman Wonderland, Vagabond, Blade of The Immortal, Battle Royale, Zettman

  10. #20
    Senior Member Perverted Pirate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    @Kenny: He had 4, meaning that now he has less than 4, he may have 3, 2 or just 1(Izuna).

    I liked the chapter, but would have loved some more pages.
    Far too awesome for your eyes!

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