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  1. #1
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Senjutsu Sage Arts & Natural Energy

    Okay if you haven't read chapter 621 go away and read it.


    So this last arc of Naruto has introduced 2 new Sage styles we never knew about but I thought it would be fun to discuss the differences and origins of each. We know Sage mode involves absorbing natural energy from ones surrounding and combining it with ones physical & spiritual energy to enter the sage state.



    Natural Energy

    I think we have to start at the beginning and figure out that Natural energy may in essence be similar to chakra the way it can be channeled into different types like Fire, Water, Earth, Lighting & Wind. You can also extend that to Yin & Yang properties. Each style of Sage mode focuses on a different way of channeling natural energy and produces different results yet shares some similarities. They all boost the users basic stats in all areas and sense of perception increases but they also give greater advantages in some areas.



    It was mentioned there are 3 places that specialize in the Sage art which are Mount Myōboku, Ryūchi Cave & Shikkotsu Forest.


    Mount Myōboku

    The Frog styled Sage mode seems to focus on boosting physical stats so would probably be Yang heavy and most suited to direct combat. One gains incredible psychical strength as we saw tiny frogs lift huge statues that probably weighed tons. Naruto was able to extend his reach with this sage mode as well without physical contact.

    Frog Kata's training takes advantage of the increased strength and agility of this mode.



    Ryūchi Cave

    The Snake styled Sage mode seems to focus on physical alteration and perception. This seems to scream out mental energy and Yin styled which controls imagination. Look what happened to Juugo's clan they literally lost mental control from absorbing this style of energy which seems similar to Uchiha clans curse due to high concentrations of mental Yin styled energy.



    Shikkotsu Forest

    The new style probably just revealed in chapter 621 that Hashirama Senju uses which seems to focus on life giving energy that effects growth and healing. This may very well connect with the slugs Tsunade summons but that is just a theory. This style of senjutsu is for healing arts or in Hashrima's case since he uses his chakra to turn into a source of life for growth in his life giving jutsu that enhances and feeds his living Mokutan jutsu.



    The 4th Style

    I have an idea that there is fourth style of Sage art used only by those who can master all styles like the Sage of the 6 paths. It could be considered some kind of divine Sage mode that is the origin of the other 3 as it was far too difficult for anyone to master.

    There maybe different variations of the main sage arts but they all generally utilize similar aspects as the 3 above.


    Please discuss


    Fire type

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  2. #2
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    im on board. I've been losing sleep thinking about kabuto's sennin transformation and the fact it was seen as a boon whereas in the frog's case it was symptomatic of imperfection and the transformation itself brought no advantage and ran the risk of turning the physical form into stone...

    which now that i think about it... the jyubi is natural energy on a godly scale but it was put away into a giant sealing stone, the moon, which was in fact originally the jljyubi's body.

    what's more to be made of that connection and events of so6p turning the juubi's body to stone?

    can we get consensus that natural energy may be harnessed, even in jutsu, no matter it's ratio or amount, wittingly gathered or not...but actual sage chakra is the specific molding of equal parts spiritual energy, physical stamina, and natural energy into a chakra. it's not combining chakra with natural energy, it's including natural energy in the chakra forming process itself, making it special.

    the "master" sage path is a fresh theory i strongly welcome.

    the biggest gripe i have, however, if indeed hashirama was using sage arts then once again we have a stigmatic attitude towards its use. "it's come to this".. why the hesitation? is sage tech only useful when fighting a best friend and is why it's never used? does it shorten lifespan as is the case with tsunade's "sennin" colored cellular regeneration? jiraya only used it when pushed in the corner because his supposed fear of sennin change scaring away hot babes.

    why is naruto the only one who seems to enjoy sage mode? does it quickly overwhelm you once your spiritual energy and physical stamina can no longer keep up with the intake of natural energy?

    sage arts are more rare than ms in use and knowledge yet ms had clear penalties as well did other sharingan tech. sage arts have yet to be explained in terms of penalties from frequent use yet it's always a last minute trump card, when chakra has already been depleted, never from the onset when the user's chakra level is best for resisting the natural energy flow's aggressive force.

    it's all so confusing and counter to its own logic!

    p.s. the master sage path would definitely be sage chakra flowing through all open gates. gai and tsunade need to have their baby asap.
    Last edited by knife eater; 02-20-2013 at 08:40 PM.
    _____
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  3. #3
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Hashirama reference that it comes to this was more the fact that he couldn't reason with Madara and he was going to be forced to go all out. The analogy with the skipping stones was a apart of that in that Madara had a inferiority complex with Hashirama,

    Hashirama's stone made it across the pond where Madara fell short as one was always ahead of the other. Hashriama became Hokage Madara did not again he fell short. Madara was trying to prove his self worth greater than Hashirama and keep in mind this was the first battle with EMS against Hashirama thats why he told him he was different than before.

    Sage mode is not something you pull out for just anything it's a power you only use against a really powerful enemy.


    Fire type

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  4. #4
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    yes, that is assuming that natural energy is harnessed for an express role in combat when so many other forms if misery plague mankind. i understand your framing of hashirama's situation with madara, but i think hashirama was demonstrating the possibility of how far madara could go if he accepted the friendship, which was the point of the gate deflection, not to remind him of his inferiority.

    off to work. good food for thought, thank you.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Netural Energy is literally the pulse of the planet. It is a superior energy. It's possible to fully convert Chakra into Natural Energy, as well as vice versa (So6p turning Jyubi's Natural Energy into Chakra, and GM's Chakra turning into Natural Energy). Humans are normally unable to transform Chakra into Natural Energy and transforming Natural Energy into Chakra is a waste of power (they might not be able to do it anyway), that's why including a portion of Natural Energy into to the mix (as the only option left), makes Chakra much stronger and the only way that Humans can fully utilize it.

    Natural Energy not only strengthens all of the user's stats, perception, kekkei genkai, jutsu, but also activate their bodies in an incalculable ways. It proved to have the capabilities to mutate other life forms (most likely, it's the motor of evolution itself). Transformation of the eyes is a symbol of entering into Sage Mode, it's even possible that it is the source of all inborn Doujutsu as well. Each styles gives different shape and color(?) of the pupil.

    Each style proved that one must join with nature (stop moving, "dying"), to gather energy and be able to enter Sage Mode.

    Each of the sage styles has a drawback/risk to using it:
    - the frog style might turn you into a stone; the less you have control over it/the farther from completion it is, the more frog-like characteristics the user attains;
    - (unconfirmed characteristics) the snake style might turn you crazy (similar effects happens when Uchiha's eyes evolve); the less you have control over it/the farther from completion it is, the more snake-like characteristics the user attains;
    - (unconfirmed characteristics) the 3rd style, unknown, but it might be that it saps your life force until you are dead; the less you have control over it/the farther from completion it is, the more slug-like the user becomes.

    It's worth mentioning that the talking animals, might actually be descendants of the humans that turned into animals because of using sage arts, which later mated with other animals, or other animal turned humans.

    The name Sage of the Six Paths, might come from the complete mastery of the 3 basic ninja abilities (Nin, Gen, Tai -jutsu) and of 3 styles of Sage Arts (Senjutsu).

    It's possible that there are other Sage Arts, but are simply less famous. In similar fashion, there are other Dojutsu, beside the mentioned 3 Great Dojutsus (Sharingan, Byakugan, Rinnegan).


    @POW, the first time Madara and Hashirama met on the battlefield (at least the time mentioned by Tobi), Madara already had EMS. The Uchiha clan became famous after Madara attained the power of the EMS, which brought Senju's attention to them. It seems that after their first battle, both of the clans realized from were they come and that they were enemies since ancient times.

  6. #6
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post

    @POW, the first time Madara and Hashirama met on the battlefield (at least the time mentioned by Tobi), Madara already had EMS. The Uchiha clan became famous after Madara attained the power of the EMS, which brought Senju's attention to them. It seems that after their first battle, both of the clans realized from were they come and that they were enemies since ancient times.
    No Madara had MS like his brother which allowed him to control the clan and fight Hashirama but eventually he lost his light and his brother gave him his eyes then he gained EMS. It was at this time he got a peace offer from Hashirama that he was forced to accept.

    Remember the reason Madara was so bitter was because his clan accepted peace after his brother had already sacrificed his eyes. Then he lost out to become Hokage and his own clan turned on him. He became a rogue ninja and left the village and found the Kyuubi.

    It was at this point where 621 is at because he is fighting Hashirama with his new power EMS and the Kyuubi. This is why he clearly says "I'm different from before".


    MS = Mangekyou which light fades and one becomes blind.

    EMS = Eternal MS which doesn't fade.


    Fire type

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  7. #7
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    What if we're looking at Hashirama's Sage mode the wrong way? What if it's not just a different version, but a more "pure" form? Sorry if I ramble, but bear with me. Sage mode relies on Natural energy. This energy has been shown to interact with objects constructed using the Mokuton style. It's also shown to cause a similar growth reaction in Zetsu bodies. Now, how did Hashirama gather that much Natural energy that quickly, to be able to use such a massive jutsu like that? It takes Naruto several minutes to gather enough energy on his own to even go into the mode. What if Hashirama learned how to gather Natural energy perfectly, as if he was tied into the land itself, and this resulted in unlocking his cells to become able to use Mokuton? This would explain why Hashirama was the only person capable of using that style, and would go a long way to explaining his power.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Titokhan's Avatar
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    Temper, it wasnt Sage mode natural energy that interacted with mokuton, it was the Kyuubi's energy of Naruto's (im on fire, but not on fire) chakra mode that did
    come fight my brute here

  9. #9
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    It was the overwhelming life force energy of Kyuubi mode that affected the mokutan and yes it reaffirms a good point. That Mokutan is a living jutsu thus a sage mode that specializes in intensifying life force energy would be a great benefit to a mokutan user.

    I suppose it could be that Hashrima's style uses Ying & Yang simultaneously and could be the 4th style I was alluding to. I was thinking since there are 3 different modes of Sage mode that they would more be equals with slight differences and focus.


    Fire type

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  10. #10
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    What if we're looking at Hashirama's Sage mode the wrong way? What if it's not just a different version, but a more "pure" form? Sorry if I ramble, but bear with me. Sage mode relies on Natural energy. This energy has been shown to interact with objects constructed using the Mokuton style. It's also shown to cause a similar growth reaction in Zetsu bodies. Now, how did Hashirama gather that much Natural energy that quickly, to be able to use such a massive jutsu like that? It takes Naruto several minutes to gather enough energy on his own to even go into the mode. What if Hashirama learned how to gather Natural energy perfectly, as if he was tied into the land itself, and this resulted in unlocking his cells to become able to use Mokuton? This would explain why Hashirama was the only person capable of using that style, and would go a long way to explaining his power.
    The naming of the jutsu (Hermit Law: Wood Element: True Thousand Hands) suggest that the Hermi Law, is not associated with Mokutoon. In similar manner is Naruto's jutsu named, Senjutsu: Futon: Rasenshurkien, when it is used in Sage Mode. Of course the living aspect of Hashirama's jutsu certainly gives him additional boost in Hermit Mode.

    It is possible that the Hermit Mode is indeed a higher version of Sage Mode, as beside the connection with Nature, the user needs to learn/know the laws of nature as well and perhaps abide by them to use this mode (it is suggested by it's name).

    Naruto can now gather massive amounts of Natural Energy in seconds/minutes (look at his fight with the Kyubi or how he enters it quickly at the battlefield before Neji dies). Naruto gets better with Sage Mode as he uses it, now he can do 3 Rasenshurikens in Sage Mode, while in fight against Pain, he could do only 2. Hashirama have probably spent more time on it, that's why the time spent on that conversation with Madara was enough for him.

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