Naruto 621 Discussion / 622 Predictions

**POW** · 02-21-2013, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by paulbee

I thought that The Wood spears fired at the Aliance Ninjas through the Juubi were Generated by Obito, using his Mokuton link with the Juubi.

Bad enough that the Sharingan is from the Juubi, and maybe even the Rinnegan, but I wouldn't want everything to be Juubi Based. I honest HOPE that Mokuton does not originate from the Juubi. Honestly, shheeesh !

In my Jyuubi thread I clearly linked that source of all humans was the Jyuubi itself and thus just as Zetsu is artificial human created from the Jyuubi+Hashrima's dna. The Rinnegan itself comes from the Jyuubi in fact it is a human incarnation of the Jyuubi. Thus all blood limits and abilties ultimately come from the Jyuubi so yeah that includes mokutan.

**Zero** · 02-21-2013, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Lakritze

I don't want to be Johnny Raincloud here, but now that I think of it, I wouldn't read too much into Hashirama's and Madara's fight. What made fighting the Sharingan so incredibly difficult was, that the moment you look a Sharingan-user in their eyes, you are lost, and you need someone else (Bijuu, companion), to snap you out of it. It's even worse with the Mangekyou-Sharingan. In the fight we just saw, Madara is virtually reduced to an uber-strong fighter. I agree, Kurama with a Susano'o-cloak is an incredible move, but Madara is not extremely clever, just extremely powerful. In a way, Kishi downplayed the dangers that are involved when someone fights the Sharingan.

Personal Paulbee-counter: 5630 missing posts to catch up to him.

That's because Kishi changed his idea after some arcs. Originally, Sharingan was supposed to be rare, it was supposed to be more like the Mokuton for the Senju at the beginning (that's why it was portrayed to be so powerful), only a few from the Uchiha were to wield that power. Now, we have that almost all Uchiha had it, thus it's power had to be greatly downplayed, although it still tends to get haxy from time to time.

Madara isn't a genjutsu type. Sure he can cast a genjutsu with a Sharingan (all known Sharingan users could do that). Madara is great at wielding ninjutsu, but his Susanoo suggests that his skills of Taijutsu are what truly made him powerful. His Susanoo itself is a manifestation of physical powers, of simple hand to hand combat capable of cutting mountains (while Itachi's was Genjutsu oriented and Sasuke's is Ninjutsu oriented). This as well suggests that Madara's other MS jutsu, might be closer to Taijutsu, probably enhancing his physical capabilities. It is even mentioned that from all the ninja (even other Uchiha), Madara was the only one that could see through Hashirama's Wood Clone, this might suggest that one of the jutsu that Madara gained, allows him to see through all secrets, or something like that. The fact that Obito, even thought Madara taught him all of his jutsu, was unable to use the Fan to counter jutsu, might suggest that it is perhaps one of Madara's MS jutsu as well.

**Jean-Marie** · 02-21-2013, 04:30 PM

Originally Posted by Aga bomBa

True, I gave it a second thought and I agree with you. Its needs to be related to the S06P, and not the Juubi. My only problem with the Juubi right now is; he seems like a powerful beast and all, but he lacks charisma! Juubi looks like one of those beasts in manga BLEACH..
Juubi needs to change from the outside.. so far; Juubi and 7 tails look a like and thats not what I excepted from the 10 tails.

First:
The juubi has not reached his final state yet. We've seen drawing of it before he was resurected, so we already have an idea of the shape he had at the time of the so6p. With two complete arms. With one giant eye, filled with a rinnegan pattern and flanked with multiple tomoes.

Second:
His mind was inhibited by the control of Madara. The connection is lost now. So he might already have his own personality and we will be acquainted with it on the next time we see him.

**knife eater** · 02-21-2013, 05:22 PM

POW, i think you are overstating the powers originating from the juubi, at least in the scope of recent battles. the juubi was summoned to power their abilities. it was a battery. obito cast the mokuton spikes while empowered by the jyubi. the jyubi is not going to cast tsukiyomi, madara or ovito will. the only ability the jyubi has really used independently is a beast bomb and that was shown to be because the uchiha controlling it willed it, as they are not capable of that ability. mokuton spikes are clearly not the jyubi's jutsu and as regarding the excellent package theory of yours from the jyubi thread, as much as i am on board with it it's hard to know which tenants will stick to a jyubi still incomplete and of unaccounted progress.

what obito was doing was the same as the alliance wave that had their own attacks boosted by chakra distribution naruto performed with kyubi. naruto and kyubi were certainly not performing hinata's fist and palms even though naruto was acting in similar function to obito amd madara's mokuton links to be a pass-through for chakra.

**POW** · 02-21-2013, 11:27 PM

Originally Posted by knife eater

POW, i think you are overstating the powers originating from the juubi, at least in the scope of recent battles. the juubi was summoned to power their abilities. it was a battery. obito cast the mokuton spikes while empowered by the jyubi. the jyubi is not going to cast tsukiyomi, madara or ovito will. the only ability the jyubi has really used independently is a beast bomb and that was shown to be because the uchiha controlling it willed it, as they are not capable of that ability. mokuton spikes are clearly not the jyubi's jutsu and as regarding the excellent package theory of yours from the jyubi thread, as much as i am on board with it it's hard to know which tenants will stick to a jyubi still incomplete and of unaccounted progress.

what obito was doing was the same as the alliance wave that had their own attacks boosted by chakra distribution naruto performed with kyubi. naruto and kyubi were certainly not performing hinata's fist and palms even though naruto was acting in similar function to obito amd madara's mokuton links to be a pass-through for chakra.

The Jyuubi clearly has the Rinnegan-Sharingan pattern you don't think that is coincidence. Kurama already stated it is the source of all that exists in this world. He wasn't talking smack he knows.

Connect these statements and you get where its coming from. Why do you think the demon statue was used to create Zetsu? It's because this is how humans in a sense where created.

**paulbee** · 02-22-2013, 02:24 AM

I get it that The Juubi is the progenitor, but is it the source of everything, and if it is the source then how did one of its descendant creatures supersede and overpower it, using what has to be watered down versions of the Juubi's own strength.

Was the Juubi out maneuvered by a smarter, more intelligent human? Was the Juubi Developmentally Disable/ Mentally retarded?

For me, I find the prospect of Mokuton at least,being derived from the Juubi, somewhat unsatisfactory, and since it has been shown that Mokuton weakens Tailed beasts, and can be used to dominate them, it would improve the chances that Mokuton came from other sources.

It is counter intuitive that a substance that weakens and disables a creature would come from the creature, unless it were some kind of waste product the creature has expelled from itself.

Ultimately we'll just have to wait and see how Kishimoto decides to spin this tale.

**knife eater** · 02-22-2013, 04:17 AM

the basic information from the manga is that the jyubi is responsible for the landscapes and chakras of the world while ninjutsu came from so6p. in such a situation as are yet to be more clearly defined model of life and nature of the narutoverse, the beginning of a cycle will not be identical to another point because of change and advances. you can work it as abstracttion and play with analogy or metaphor.
the jyubi is a bag of flour and mokuton the bread. obito will not find bread when he cuts open the bag of flour but flour certainly is the origin of bread.

**bigmarkg2** · 02-22-2013, 07:52 AM

kyubi is madara's in the old day???!!! O.o it is so cool with the armour! and the wood dragon belongs to the first hokage... it's a surprise to me of naruto.

**Rlinfamous** · 02-22-2013, 08:18 AM

Kid Madara is the PERFECT depiction of a young Madara... I'm so glad he's not a stoic Sasuke-knockoff, but a more impatient, bratty kid. It fits with his boastful adult self, who likes to toy with opponents and show off his powers. He just wants to prove he's the best.