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  1. #111
    i love jesus christ enochdickson's Avatar
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    Oct 2009
    I would like to cite somthing that crossed my mind,

    It would very well be minato was a Sage like naruto too ! .. and the reason he simply did not use sage mode is because he did not have time to collect sage chakra during kyuubi fight..

    And one morething!

    It could very well be Minato saw the future with the help of sage frog telling him about the attack during narutos birth and consequences etc, about his future and narutos future ..,
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  2. #112
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Aug 2007
    Hmmmmm, where to start ;P.

    OK, there was once a thread about Time-space jutsu (or was it only about one ?), but after the multi-hack x break after break down, it might have disappeared .

    Now let's return to summoning jutsu. It's really an extraordinary jutsu, beside allowing you to summon an animal from the other side of the world, it has an additional function, the growth spurt (well something like that), that by giving additional chakra, you can adjust the size of the animal you summon (yep, that is pretty wicked, this truly is a space bending jutsu, this is what Sasuke himself used on his normal hawk summon). I remember Jiraya wondering if the Cerberus Summon isn't just a normal dog summoned with the additional growth spurt.

    Minato's jutsu is closer to the summoning jutsu (now I wonder if it wasn't Tobirama that first created the animal summoning jutsu, since Hashirama didn't seem to have a summon, while Madara started using it only after he left Konoha), than Kamui is. In the first place, Kamui is a Space-Time (first subcategory) Ninjutsu (main category), it's (second )subcategory is Doujutsu. In actuality it is a Dimensional Transfer (movement between dimensions), while FTG is a Dimensional Shortcut (it connects two spaces in the same dimension, that's why it's faster than Kamui, when we consider moving around). What's more, indifference to Kamui, FTG needs markers (similar to the summoning jutsu that uses the user blood and chakra to form a temporary marker). Minato is capable of forming them on any space by using his hands. Namikaze mostly resorts to his special kunai, that already have those markers, but the fact that he can feel when it is in motion, suggests that some of his chakra is stored in it (this might explain why the handle have a cylinder shape, in order to have space to store chakra). It's possible that the chakra stored in the kunai, can be used for jutsu as well (of course Minato himself has certainly above avarage chakra pool, as any kage has, the question is only how big it really is). In that case, the gigantic versions of his kunai might be used as chakra sources, rather than simply used in battle (you could compare it to Naruto using his senjutsu chakra molding clones as supply units).

    @Lark, that's the whole point. Sasuke was constantly under Obito's/Zetsu's observation (especial since the beginning of his final fight with Itachi), he would know if he had formed a regular pact with an animal ninja (in this case it's not even a ninja animal, just a normal animal, so this makes it even more plausible that another method was used). The only indication of the pact formed, is when Sasuke looked into Hawk's eyes with his MS.

    @Paul, how can you believe that "Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo Go together as a Threesome Package until Kishimoto tells us more", when we already have at least 2 other MS users that had none of those ? Shisui had his special genjutsu and Obito has his special space-time ninjutsu, plus Sasuke himself has only special ninjutsu. Although it seems that Susanoo is indeed something that every MS pair/Uchiha have in common, if they are able to awaken it.

  3. #113
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    River Falls, WI
    Minato's chakra is definitely "Above average", but I don't think (based on his shown fights) that he's "exceptional"... the highest I'd give him is roughly Itachi-level (not nearly the current Sasuke-level).

  4. #114
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Sep 2011
    well, zero.. those were some pretty good comments. i still choose to see kamui as a mangekyo phenomena and not share core principles with conventional space time techniques. ftg is missing elements that support notable similarities with summoning. only superficially do they resemble each other. ftg is responsible for point A and B whereas summoning only takes care of point A or or point B, not both.

    i don't think jiraya would have inducted minato into the frog pact unless he saw minato's potential as a sage. it seems summoning pacts are made from synnergistic relationships .. as in the frogs forming pacts with shinobi who stand to benefit the most from what the frogs offer. summoning the boss frog, imo, is a clue minato had unquestionable potential in mastery of frog sage arts (years, pa frog spoke with distinction..implying differences in the sage arts between different training kingdoms).

    tsukiyomi and amaterasu.. madara having them or not actually impacts the manga in some pretty heavy ways.

    -if he does have them then there is a significant link between uchiha who awaken the same ms power. even along the lines of "pure bloodedness".
    even a family lineage within the clan determines the power of that branch family's set of abolition.

    -if he does not have them then it means madara operated with foreknowledge of sasuke and itachi many years before they were born. a rinnegan or prophecy could have panned out that knowledge from destiny itself. obito and sasuke are then simply cherry picked by madara yet the illusion of "chance" remains intact thanks to madara's manipulation and cautious acts.

    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  5. #115
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Jul 2007
    Fargo, North Dakota USA

    We have no evidence that Shisui had no Amaterasu/Tsukuyomi, and Tobi may jolly well have ben able to manifest them had he had both eyes. I have to Agree with Knifeeater that the MS could easily have additional attributes. Tobi had Kamui, Shisui has Koto Amatsukami.

    We just have to wait and see. It would be surprising to me if Only Sasuke and Itachi were the only Uchiha with MS/EMS that have Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi.

    So far, the ONLY MS attribute that Madara has shown is Susanoo. It would be surprising if he had none other, which of course is highly unlikely. We just have to wait and see...

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  6. #116
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    River Falls, WI
    It'd be nice to learn more about Madara's MS Jutsu... generally these jutsu reflect the style/personality of their users to some degree. I want to see what Madara fought like against Hashirama, and so far he's only shown more of the same in the flashbacks.

  7. #117
    Senior Member Yoru's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Plz tell me naruto will be out today

  8. #118
    So Orochimaru is pulling a Vader moment and turning towards the light? Weird...

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