Naruto 620 Discussion / 621 Predictions

[Temperjoke]

^ Well, rather than a Senju for certain, he might have been just one of the So6p's descendants. The Silver and Gold brothers are mentioned just like that, without specifying from which descendant (the younger or the older brother) they came.


Anyway, is it me, or have Tobirama experimented on the Uchiha ? He seems to know way too much, with way too detailed background images and workings of their brains. To even mention that he has seen it countless time, yet strangely enough, no one else knew about it and there was no mention of it, to the point that even Oro didn't seem to know about it. Yep, he might have been, no, he probably was a mad scientist as well. After all, how many people had he sacrificed, before completing Edo Tensei to an usable point/state ?

Well, they were at war for the longest time, which probably got him curious regarding the Uchiha eye techniques. For that matter, the Uchiha might have wanted to know themselves, if only to see if there was a fast track method to unlocking their power, giving them a stronger army. Once the Leaf Village was founded, I'm sure there were still cases of Uchiha's giving in to their emotions and losing control. When they were killed, they may have performed a medical examination to determine what they could. It might not have been as sophisticated as what could be done in the present-day Naruto world, but Tobirama isn't an average shinobi either.

[D.J. Uzumaki]

Hashirama basically bitched his brother for that silence crack earlier, all without moving a muscle! That's badass! He is that ninja. And I get the feeling if he wanted to leave not even Orochimaru could stop him! I mean, look at what Madara did to Kabuto's Edo Tensei. And his was better than Orochimaru's. The First Hokage is OP at his normal level, it's scary to think how strong he'd be as a Jinchuriki.

[Lakritze]

Well, rather than a Senju for certain, he might have been just one of the So6p's descendants. The Silver and Gold brothers are mentioned just like that, without specifying from which descendant (the younger or the older brother) they came.

Maybe, it was just a thought.

Anyway, is it me, or have Tobirama experimented on the Uchiha ? He seems to know way too much, with way too detailed background images and workings of their brains. To even mention that he has seen it countless time, yet strangely enough, no one else knew about it and there was no mention of it, to the point that even Oro didn't seem to know about it. Yep, he might have been, no, he probably was a mad scientist as well. After all, how many people had he sacrificed, before completing Edo Tensei to an usable point/state ?

Tobirama has his dark side, but we don't know yet, how dark it is. I don't think, he really killed someone to make use of this jutsu. I'd rather guess it was something like Chiyo's reincarnation-jutsu: Once they developped it and learned the risks, they sealed it away (with limited success). And I think, it was at least pretty well known that the Uchiha have a special chakra, as Obito mentioned during the history lecture he gave Sasuke (http://www.mangapanda.com/93-403-18/...apter-398.html). Unfortunatelly, we don't see the reaction of Sarutobi and Minato when Tobirama mentions, that Uchiha value love highly. But Hashirama seems to know what story is about to come (http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/619/15). Bottom line: I think the better-informed early Konoha-generations knew about this Uchiha-trait, and it wasn't such a secret, after all.

[paulbee]

Hashirama basically bitched his brother for that silence crack earlier, all without moving a muscle! That's badass! He is that ninja. And I get the feeling if he wanted to leave not even Orochimaru could stop him! I mean, look at what Madara did to Kabuto's Edo Tensei. And his was better than Orochimaru's. The First Hokage is OP at his normal level, it's scary to think how strong he'd be as a Jinchuriki.

Hashirama is Just so Beast and so Goku SSJ5. I may be wrong, but I have no recollection of another character in Naruto who Spikes His Chakra and from that alone be able to destroy/damage Building structures.

Last week we saw Tobirama telling Hashirama to be silent, now this week it is interestingly telling how Tobirama quickly Backed down after Hashirama released his chakra. There is clearly a huge difference in power between the two, although I'd have to say that absent of Hashirama, Tobirama would certainly dominate.

Seems that for now Kishi wants to straighten out the History between Uchiha and Senju, probably the Elder brother vs Younger brother, along with maybe the purpose of the SO6P's creation of the Bijuus (beyond just dismantling the Juubi). To me, if there is a special purpose for the creation of the Village, it must have to do with carrying forward The SO6P's Will, and this might involve the Bijuus too, as the SO6P really cared for and loved them and probably wished for his Sons to work with them (I could be stretching it a little).

Anyway, we've seen/heard Tobi/Madara's version, now let's hear the other side. It should be very enlightening.

[Yellowcardus]

As someone already mentioned, Sasuke's words really make you think. Personaly, i'm wondering what is it that Kishi want's to do with Sasuke.

"Either crush Konoha, or perhaps...." Perhaps crush the entire shinobi system?

At this point, Sauske has made it clear that he doesn't really have doubts as to his revenge. What he may however be wondering, is who or what exactly should be the target of his revenge. In other words i think that Sasuke is asking all those fundamental questions, because he want's to know. Is Konoha really to blame for the tradegy of his clan? Or is it the entire shinobi system that was at fault. (which would explain why Itachi never gave up on Konoha).

In my opininon no matter how hard Hashirama will try. All he will manage to do, is make Sasuke into a distored version of Madara. Sasuke could very well become an even bigger threat than Madara and Obito combined. Because he will blaime the very foundations of shinobi: the existence of SO6P and his teachings. For the tradegy that has befallen him and his kin. Thus he could become the ultimate counter to Naruto. Who on the other hand, is on his way to becoming the next SO6P.

Possible?

[enochdickson]

As someone already mentioned, Sasuke's words really make you think. Personaly, i'm wondering what is it that Kishi want's to do with Sasuke.

"Either crush Konoha, or perhaps...." Perhaps crush the entire shinobi system?

At this point, Sauske has made it clear that he doesn't really have doubts as to his revenge. What he may however be wondering, is who or what exactly should be the target of his revenge. In other words i think that Sasuke is asking all those fundamental questions, because he want's to know. Is Konoha really to blame for the tradegy of his clan? Or is it the entire shinobi system that was at fault. (which would explain why Itachi never gave up on Konoha).

In my opininon no matter how hard Hashirama will try. All he will manage to do, is make Sasuke into a distored version of Madara. Sasuke could very well become an even bigger threat than Madara and Obito combined. Because he will blaime the very foundations of shinobi: the existence of SO6P and his teachings. For the tradegy that has befallen him and his kin. Thus he could become the ultimate counter to Naruto. Who on the other hand, is on his way to becoming the next SO6P.

Possible?

Claps
Claps Claps

But i think the above said to happen it might take maybe another 50-100 chapters. which is another one or two years.. Although me being an ardent fan of naruto, its too much for me that i want it to end soon in a good way..lets see

[POW]

Amataresu is not all powerful it can be countered by speed or intercepted by a type of barrier. Like Gaara's sand armor there may be a mokutan armor that has similar effect.


To those that don't know Madara has not used Amaterasu mainly because that's going to be Sasuke's specialty. Kishi likes each character to have a distinctive fighting style. This is also why you don't see Madara spamming Shinra tensei & Tobi used the 6 paths but relied on their special Jinchuurki based abilities. Nagato already showed us all the Rinnegan's main abilities and he used them well so that's his fighting style Madara & Tobi have their own.

Sasuke's specialty as we saw in the Raikage battle is his manipulation of Amaterasu a branching off of his advancement in shape manipulation he learned from chidori and all the variations he created from them. We say him hit multiple Zetsu's with manipulated flames so I think he will also use Lightning manipulation on his Susanoo arrows to increase their piercing power.

[knife eater]

the "shinobi system" as it exists now is not the problem itself but merely a step for society over more barbarous culture prior to the great nations and village structure. i think sasuke will need to learn that. otherwise, destroying the system, as is a running possibility for what we guess he will do with himself (besides any cheap emo joke you wish to insert here) will be pointless. i am not sure what it is hashirama and madara disagreed on exactly. we have impressions of senju vs uchiha history and the older brother/ younger brother basic ideals simplified but the actual conflict between madara and hashirama is a mystery. it was deeper than leading jut konaha, was probably about bigger picture of the world given they were the two strongest.

i think the conflict will be a take on absolute power (madara) or sharing/trust (hashirama). so destruction of the shinobi system will instead be regression into a style of dictatorship or if naruto can impose his ideal, a step forward from the nation/village system to a new era with less means or reason to hurt each other. there are all kinds of hints whenever a silly style of justice is uttered by an unsure or half witted uber pawn (obito) but nothing very assuring or definitive when it comes to the political landscape past the basic structure of government. with the remarks between oro and tobirama and questioning identity of village, maybe we can have a political revelation or development so that motivations will feel more practical and believable beyond impressionable youth succumbing to a whim or romantic ideal.

sasuke, imo, has been redeeming uchiha first before himself or the farce of his brother. as emo as he has been, he doesn't add up to what tobieama described. there is a big difference between losing an individual of deep meaning to you and going nuts with sharingan, it's a whole other ordeal entirely when you must learn to exist as the line survivor of your clan you witnessed murdered in brutal fashion by your brother. it's wholly and exponentially beyond the curse tobirama referred. and yet even then, we have sasuke seemingly and symptomatically begin to desire power, for his professed need for revenge but on his own terms. sasuke's determination and choices appeared to be the typical uchiha curse tobirama described but in reality, itachi, having destroyed the uchiha image as the uchiha image himself, has actually pushed sasuke away from that curse and has been betraying the essence of his dead clan by the the nature of his indictments he carries against the village.

in simple terms, his initial hatred for itachi drove him to seek power, sure, but power according to his terms, which is not according to the "curse". he calculated his movements and very seldom acted on maniacal lust or power trip
he wanted to obtain the power of his clan, mangekyo, but bevause of his disgust with itachi, swore to obtain it differently.

his fight to death with itachi was peppered with verbal assaults on itachi's eyes which amount to mockery of the uchiha system and way of life whether he recognizes that or not.

sasuke is more sasuke than he is uchiha. the parallels between his path of darkness and the uchiha curse are not the big picture and beginning with itachi and continued through sasuke, they have overcome the uchiha curse and sasuke stands to regrow his clan in a new light or bring upon himself a new curse and be the new madara. it's because of sasuke's path of darkness is deceivingly suggestive of the uchiha curse yet remains wholly unique and personal to sasuke that i can appreciate and totally enjoy him as a character and not always have to roll my eyes at the cliche people mistake him as or feel disappointment with a one-sided predictable cardboard villain he could have been. he has showed surprising control and restraint even when goaded or pushed into the uchiha way by tobi or oro.

[Lakritze]

OK, based on the assumption that the four Hokages won't just disappear once their done with their talk, it is safe to assume that they will all meet Naruto (one way of the other). Although, that might take a couple of chapters. Obito used up at least seven chapters for all of his history-lessons, and Minato hasn't even started, yet. By the way, it's gonna be nice to see Sasuke's reaction, once he learns that Minato is Naruto's father, and that Naruto's parents died because of Obito, and not because of a natural desaster.

I have, however, another question: I've been rereading the first three chapters of Naruto. Sarutobi made everything about Naruto a secret: The new generation new neither who his parents were, nor that he inherited the Uzumaki family-tradition of being Kurama's Jinchuriki. And he knew exactly, what Naruto was going through:

Spoiler!

However, he didn't place any restrictions on Naruto, on the contrary. He even didn't intervene when he had a talk with his grandson. Actually, Naruto even put Konohamaru on the right track. Plus he watched him start to control Kurama's power.

Seeing, how Naruto has developped and - more importantly - how highly he has been valued by the village to the point that they accept him handing over Kurama's chakra to them... I am really looking forward to seeing his reaction. Maybe I am exaggerating this, but I am convinced if it wasn't for Sarutobi, Naruto would never has got this far.

What do you think?

[knife eater]

Amataresu is not all powerful it can be countered by speed or intercepted by a type of barrier. Like Gaara's sand armor there may be a mokutan armor that has similar effect.


To those that don't know Madara has not used Amaterasu mainly because that's going to be Sasuke's specialty. Kishi likes each character to have a distinctive fighting style. This is also why you don't see Madara spamming Shinra tensei & Tobi used the 6 paths but relied on their special Jinchuurki based abilities. Nagato already showed us all the Rinnegan's main abilities and he used them well so that's his fighting style Madara & Tobi have their own.

Sasuke's specialty as we saw in the Raikage battle is his manipulation of Amaterasu a branching off of his advancement in shape manipulation he learned from chidori and all the variations he created from them. We say him hit multiple Zetsu's with manipulated flames so I think he will also use Lightning manipulation on his Susanoo arrows to increase their piercing power.

i was hoping sasuke would haveva clear biased to fire. i wanted naruto's wind biased to make good on making sasuke stronger. im waiting for that moment because both as a symbol and as a physical cooperation, it will be awesome.

with hashirama's answer to sasuke i hope we see madara and izuna's personal techniques. i have looked for evidence of a clear ms ability in the quick shred of flashbacks already shown but i cannot find an ember of amaterasu anywhere
with as grand as hashirama's forest techniques are, it would be almost silly if madara didn't indeed have an epic amaterasu to use against it! it wouldn't fit as well if his ms/ems power was a giant garden sheer, of course it holds that as a susanoo equipped weapon it would be absolutely fitting.

OK, based on the assumption that the four Hokages won't just disappear once their done with their talk, it is safe to assume that they will all meet Naruto (one way of the other). Although, that might take a couple of chapters. Obito used up at least seven chapters for all of his history-lessons, and Minato hasn't even started, yet. By the way, it's gonna be nice to see Sasuke's reaction, once he learns that Minato is Naruto's father, and that Naruto's parents died because of Obito, and not because of a natural desaster.

I have, however, another question: I've been rereading the first three chapters of Naruto. Sarutobi made everything about Naruto a secret: The new generation new neither who his parents were, nor that he inherited the Uzumaki family-tradition of being Kurama's Jinchuriki. And he knew exactly, what Naruto was going through:

Spoiler!

However, he didn't place any restrictions on Naruto, on the contrary. He even didn't intervene when he had a talk with his grandson. Actually, Naruto even put Konohamaru on the right track. Plus he watched him start to control Kurama's power.

Seeing, how Naruto has developped and - more importantly - how highly he has been valued by the village to the point that they accept him handing over Kurama's chakra to them... I am really looking forward to seeing his reaction. Maybe I am exaggerating this, but I am convinced if it wasn't for Sarutobi, Naruto would never has got this far.

What do you think?

you make a great point. sarutobi might have secrets or purposes we will never know. sasuke was named after the third hokage's father! interesting but maybe never developed in the story. that crystal ball that was a seeing eye, his established link to an animal dimension (genma and the apes with the legendary weapon) .. would he have opportunity to be told an ape prophecy that if not exactly the same as toad prophecy, was still a prophecy dealing with certain events that lead into realization of the toad prophecy?

hiruzen has a definite mystical bent in his character and asuma's choices reflect the same (just don't watch the anime filler overlapping asuma's history).

you have me interested in what the third knows or why he could act so wisely in his treatment of naruto (but sasuke is questioned and how the third handled that). it's a compelling situation to be charged with protecting the lone surviving uchiha (practically) who has a supposed destiny driven by a curse yet was given the honor of having his name bestowed as your own father. the third seems to have as much to.answer for, if not more than hashirama.