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  1. #41
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    No wonder everyone wants Hashirama's cells.

    But seriously, How come Hashirama's cells make everybody stronger, BUT the Zetsus who are virtual clones of Hashirama are super weak?

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  2. #42
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    In the Image of Madara vs Hashiram battle,

    Seems Hashirama's wood Dragon Swallowed The Kyuubi's BB, then Turned it around and used it JUST Like a Rassengan against Madara's Susanoo.
    Nope, the bijuudama severed the first dragon's head (you can even notice that at the end of the chapter, it is severed). Hashirama simply firmly grasped the Bijuu Bomb without it exploding (how the hell does this even work) with his Living Wooden Soul, after which he created another Wood Dragon to replace the destroyed one before Kyubi regains it's momentum... then Madara partially unleashed, not yet stabilized, Susanoo, which already is much bigger than Kyubi and the Living Wooden Soul jutsu... looks like Hashirama will need to make a battalion or even an army of the Wood Dragons and Living Wooden Souls, unless they are sturdier than Susanoo (the wooden soul might, but the dragon was easily owned with the bijuu bomb, that Susanoo was able to stop).

    The cracks go from Hashirama, it was only his chakra that almost destroyed that bunker.

    I wonder what Oro's reason for attacking Konoha was.

    Tobirama seems to be a sensor type, seeing as he could detect Madara's chakra, from the massive distortions caused by Naruto's X Kurama x Alliance chakra together with Jyubi's (then again, if it's made only from natural energy, and not senjutsu chakra, the it cannot be detected by normal means).


    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    No wonder everyone wants Hashirama's cells.

    But seriously, How come Hashirama's cells make everybody stronger, BUT the Zetsus who are virtual clones of Hashirama are super weak?
    Are you seriously asking why a mass produced model has a lower performance than a heavy customized one, being made with better materials from the very beginning ? Besides, they don't have a soul as matured as that of a humans and well, chakra is spiritual + physical energies (it's one of the reasons why using Tenzou, who has a soul, gave better results than soulless Hashirama clone ). Sure, they are potentialy more intelligent than humans and it's from Hashirama, lol, then again Hashirama proved to be more perceptive than Tobirama who is just a smart-ass. Besides, Zetsu are clones of a Soulless clone, so basically they are copy of an incomplete copy, which lower their quality even more.
    Last edited by Zero; 02-13-2013 at 10:48 PM.

  3. #43
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    So, the 1st and 2nd are now confirmed complete badasses. The 2nd cracks the room by raising a finger only, then the 1st subdues by being even more badass than that. It's no wonder Suigetsu flipped his shit at that moment.

    In any case, I like how Sasuke's matured over the course of his beef with the Leaf Village. At the very beginning, we knew for a fact that he would have attempted to destroy the Leaf Village with extreme prejudice after Obito had gotten to him, but now that he's getting more and more information about his clan and Itachi, he's slowly thinking things through and trying to get all the facts straight. I like this a lot.

    Also, Oro letting the 4 Hokages go out and fight... I will admit that the thought of that gives me great pleasure.

  4. #44
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    1) Well, Zero. With The Wooden Dragon we can still say that Hashirama used the Kyuubi's BB like a Rassengan. So Hashirama invented the concept?

    2) Oro is currently using a Zetsu body to impose Hashirama enhanced control over the Edos. I guess I could buy the Soul thing, but it seems kinda weak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    So, the 1st and 2nd are now confirmed complete badasses. The 2nd cracks the room by raising a finger only, then the 1st subdues by being even more badass than that. It's no wonder Suigetsu flipped his shit at that moment.

    In any case, I like how Sasuke's matured over the course of his beef with the Leaf Village. At the very beginning, we knew for a fact that he would have attempted to destroy the Leaf Village with extreme prejudice after Obito had gotten to him, but now that he's getting more and more information about his clan and Itachi, he's slowly thinking things through and trying to get all the facts straight. I like this a lot.

    Also, Oro letting the 4 Hokages go out and fight... I will admit that the thought of that gives me great pleasure.
    Hashirama was puting "Little Brother" in his place..LOL

    Totally right about Sasuke. I also think that The Emo Uchiha trait of Hyper-Love is forcing Sasuke to consider Itachi's feelings..Sorta

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  5. #45
    Global Moderator Jaiden's Avatar
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    So all Tobirama has to do is raise his finger to kick a dudes ass? Lol! God I hope Oro let the Kages join the war, we all know its going to be good. Plus it would be nice to see Hashirama vs Madara and also Naruto fighting alongside Minato would just be awesome.

    Like Afro said I like this Sasuke am seeing.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaiden View Post
    So all Tobirama has to do is raise his finger to kick a dudes ass? Lol! God I hope Oro let the Kages join the war, we all know its going to be good. Plus it would be nice to see Hashirama vs Madara and also Naruto fighting alongside Minato would just be awesome.

    Like Afro said I like this Sasuke am seeing.
    Well, Itachi could do it with one finger, why not Tobirama ?

    Tobirama's chakra probably rose to the level that Naruto first used Kyubi's power against Haku, it certainly startled Kakashi and Zabuza in a similar fashion (and they were quite far away), maybe even more than that. Then Hashirama raised it to the point were the room (it's actually a bunker) couldn't withstand his chakra pressure (this does sounds like Bleach and DBZ) and the room started to give away (the cracks really steam off only from under Hashirama's feet and connect with those on walls).

    Strangely enough, not even one crack appeared or reached that inner podium with the tablet, is there an additional barrier there ?

    It seemed like Tobirama could really pull something with his finger, perhaps he devised a new hand seal that looks as if he was gripping his arms (Hashirama did seem to use some special hand seal as well, when performing the Wood Dragon, at least I don't remember it ever being used). Itachi could use genjutsu, but it wouldn't work too well against an MS user, so he might have wanted to pull his own Space-time ninjutsu that was once mentioned (it was good enough to compare it with Minato's, but still weaker that Obito's).


    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    1) Well, Zero. With The Wooden Dragon we can still say that Hashirama used the Kyuubi's BB like a Rassengan. So Hashirama invented the concept?
    I will wait with my opinion until Kishi reveals that it was So6p that taught the Biuus how to do Bijudamas (assuming that they have little to no recollection of when they were one), by showing how he does a rasengan :p.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post

    Currently, Oro is inhabiting a Zetsu, which was grown by Madara from Plant and Hashirama's cells. I'd say that the Zetsu's are better copies of Hashirama than what Danzo had.

    Thinking about it, Oro may well be immortal now that he has a Zetsu body, and he could manufacture more Zetsu clones from the one he currently has if he were to need more in the future.
    But Madara himself has the same Shodai's face infused on him. I would say that it is another clone inside his body wich would be better than the zetsu, or he (madara) just would do the same as he did to Obito.

    Of course he used the zetsu body because he needed a hoster, but still is meaningless to use Hashirama's power just now...


    BTW good explanation on the perfection of the Edo Tensei.

    And by raising his finger, Tobirama would have used his space/time ninjutsu as minato stated on his fight against Tobi that he was a pretty good user.

  8. #48
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    This chapter continues gave us a few more answers but also raised a whole new set of questions. I always kinda of suspected that Hashirama had an equivalent of Susanoo and this chapter confirmed it. Now we know exactly what made Hashirama so godly and how he was able to counter both the Kyuubi and Madara's full powered Susanoo. I am now more curious than ever as to what Madara did to escape from Hashirama unnoticed. I find it very interesting that so far Madara has not used Amaterasu even once. It seems strange, if Madara had Amaterasu it seems like it would be the perfect counter to Hashirama's Mokuton considering we have seen how quickly Amaterasu can consume a forest. I don't think Madara has Amaterasu, I think he must have some other technique instead. Itachi said that the Eternal Mangekyou has a 4th technique and yet we haven't seen any hint of what it is. I have a feeling that the 4th ability is somehow related to how he was able to escape death unnoticed.

    I was really beginning to wonder how things would turn around on Madara with his grossly overpowered abilities but now that the 4 Kages have been revived and Hashirama's full powers have been revealed it seems as though they might be able to to turn things around and somehow seal end the Edo Tensei that is keeping Madara alive. I suspect that the 4 Kages will together defeat and seal Madara but Obito will use Kamui to escape and Orochimaru will end the Edo Tensei so that he can continue with his own plans. Orochimaru likely doesn't want the 4 Kages around, they are a means to an end, he wants to learn from them and use them to get rid of Madara. Right now Madara is Orochimaru's biggest obstacle in getting what he wants. Orochimaru still has every intention of becoming the worlds ultimate being but to do that he still needs a number of things. Orochimaru still doesn't know the whole story of the past generation and so he is playing nice for now until he can learn the information he needs and get Sasuke to do what he wants.

    With Madara out of the way and the Juubi on the loose, the allies will still be too busy to interfere with Orochimaru and Sasuke's plans. Obito will be on the run but he still has a lot of resources, I think he will eventually become desperate enough to bring Madara back but not yet, I suspect that he will attempt to reclaim Sasuke first. Obito said that Sasuke was the most important part of his plan, and I don't think that has changed. The question is will he have a chance anymore? Obito has had some tough luck lately and without Madara I doubt that he will be able to reclaim control of the Juubi. Obito has also lost almost his entire so I think that soon he will be back to square one. But he still has a lot of power and I suspect that Black Zetsu will somehow motivate him to bring back Madara.

    As for Sasuke and Orochimaru, I still think there is far more to this than meets the eye and no matter what Hashirama says Sasuke will not be swayed. I think this because it was hinted at the beginning of the chapter, Orochimaru had reasons that have not yet been revealed for wanting to destroy Konoha. I think those reasons go far deeper than even Hashirama realizes. Orochimaru actually wants Sasuke to learn something from Hashirama because I think he knows that Hashirama's story will somehow support whatever it is that Orochimaru wants Sasuke to do. Another clue is that they went to the Uchiha hide out, why was it so important that they go there to resurrect the Kages? I think the Tablet still has a lot of information that we have not yet been told. There are two sides to this story, the Senju side (which Hashirama will reveal) and the Uchiha side (which the tablet will reveal). This will give him information that quite likely no one else in the world has.

    I think we have just barely begun to see what is contained on those scrolls that Orochimaru had. Bringing back the Kage's was almost certainly just the beginning.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    There's no 4th MS technique in the same vein as Amaterasu, Tsukiyomi, and Susano. The EMS itself is the 4th technique. The Sharingan and its derivatives are referred to as techniques in their own right (Eye Techniques).

  10. #50
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @ Artifice,

    As I understood from Itachi, The Eyes that has Awaken Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu gets Susanoo.

    Spoiler!


    I think it's impossible for Madara to have Susanoo without having Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.

    I'd like to suggest a reason why Madara never used Amaterasu against Hashirama. There can be ONLY ONE REASON:- Amaterasu doesn't work on Mokuton

    This is only a guess right now, but if Mokuton somehow Binds Tailed beasts, and Controls the Juubi, AND, IF the Juubi is the source of the Sharingan, THEN Mokuton may be immune to the Amaterasu Flames assuming that Amaterasu is also derived from the Juubi.

    Madara may have used it or tried it on Hashirama in one of their Early fights before the VOTE. If it doesn't work, Madara is not the type to waste Chakra on a jutsu that's ineffective (Unlike Naruto, lol).

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

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