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  1. #71
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    Amataresu is not all powerful it can be countered by speed or intercepted by a type of barrier. Like Gaara's sand armor there may be a mokutan armor that has similar effect.


    To those that don't know Madara has not used Amaterasu mainly because that's going to be Sasuke's specialty. Kishi likes each character to have a distinctive fighting style. This is also why you don't see Madara spamming Shinra tensei & Tobi used the 6 paths but relied on their special Jinchuurki based abilities. Nagato already showed us all the Rinnegan's main abilities and he used them well so that's his fighting style Madara & Tobi have their own.

    Sasuke's specialty as we saw in the Raikage battle is his manipulation of Amaterasu a branching off of his advancement in shape manipulation he learned from chidori and all the variations he created from them. We say him hit multiple Zetsu's with manipulated flames so I think he will also use Lightning manipulation on his Susanoo arrows to increase their piercing power.
    i was hoping sasuke would haveva clear biased to fire. i wanted naruto's wind biased to make good on making sasuke stronger. im waiting for that moment because both as a symbol and as a physical cooperation, it will be awesome.

    with hashirama's answer to sasuke i hope we see madara and izuna's personal techniques. i have looked for evidence of a clear ms ability in the quick shred of flashbacks already shown but i cannot find an ember of amaterasu anywhere
    with as grand as hashirama's forest techniques are, it would be almost silly if madara didn't indeed have an epic amaterasu to use against it! it wouldn't fit as well if his ms/ems power was a giant garden sheer, of course it holds that as a susanoo equipped weapon it would be absolutely fitting.
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  2. #72
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Last time Sarutobi saw Minato, Minato sacrificed himself using the Death Demon Seal. Wouldn't you think that those two would have a few things to talk about?

    And one thing: I am curious whether we will get a glimps of Minato's chakra levels. His fighting style is of that sort, that he usually doesn't need much chakra. When he fights someone, all he has to achieve is to place a Flying-Thunder-God-marking on his opponent, and he is pretty much doomed. In his fight with A and Bee, he pretty much proved that. Normal Shinobi (meaning everybody below kage-level), are just small fry for him. And even the Sharingan can't predict, where he will teleport - if so, Obito would have had less problems. It's possible we will never know his true chakra-levels. We know it was at least enough to summon Gamabunta, teleport a bijuudama, teleport himself with Kurama, put up a great barrier and seal half of Kurama inside Naruto (besides a few other things).

    But that's exactly the thing with his FTG: Even Madara's meteor-jutsu wouldn't work on him, because he could simply warp himself far away and come back afterwards. And Raikage already showed how to dodge Amaterasu with speed. When you think about it: Minato is the perfect shinobi to fight the Sharingan. Maybe that's the reason Kishi didn't let the technique reappear: Its potential power is unreal. I wonder whether this Kunai Minato donated to Kakashi will ever reappear.

    Wait a minute: Tsunade has the FTG-marking somewhere on her, and at least Kakashi has one of his Kunai. So maybe teleporting to the battle-scene might happen sooner than we think.


    Just my 2 cents...

  3. #73
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    I think Minato's chakra levels are slightly above average, probably comparable to the typical Akatsuki member (but not Nagato or Kisame). It seems like almost every S-class ninja possesses greater than average chakra (probably due to experience and training). However, there's nothing special about Minato's chakra, as far as I can tell. I don't think he could have handled Natural Energy, or becoming a Jinchuuriki, or anything like that.

  4. #74
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lakritze View Post
    Last time Sarutobi saw Minato, Minato sacrificed himself using the Death Demon Seal. Wouldn't you think that those two would have a few things to talk about?

    And one thing: I am curious whether we will get a glimps of Minato's chakra levels. His fighting style is of that sort, that he usually doesn't need much chakra. When he fights someone, all he has to achieve is to place a Flying-Thunder-God-marking on his opponent, and he is pretty much doomed. In his fight with A and Bee, he pretty much proved that. Normal Shinobi (meaning everybody below kage-level), are just small fry for him. And even the Sharingan can't predict, where he will teleport - if so, Obito would have had less problems. It's possible we will never know his true chakra-levels. We know it was at least enough to summon Gamabunta, teleport a bijuudama, teleport himself with Kurama, put up a great barrier and seal half of Kurama inside Naruto (besides a few other things).

    But that's exactly the thing with his FTG: Even Madara's meteor-jutsu wouldn't work on him, because he could simply warp himself far away and come back afterwards. And Raikage already showed how to dodge Amaterasu with speed. When you think about it: Minato is the perfect shinobi to fight the Sharingan. Maybe that's the reason Kishi didn't let the technique reappear: Its potential power is unreal. I wonder whether this Kunai Minato donated to Kakashi will ever reappear.

    Wait a minute: Tsunade has the FTG-marking somewhere on her, and at least Kakashi has one of his Kunai. So maybe teleporting to the battle-scene might happen sooner than we think.


    Just my 2 cents...
    omg that is an excellent tudbit! if oro lets the kage's join the fray then minato can teleport to either tsunade or kakashi or even both within seconds! i never thought about them having ftg seals on them!

    minato's chakra levels are probably almost in kisame class imo. he could match or muster insane amounts in a blink of an eye in quick succession. it makes me wonder if he had sennin boosts like kabuto gained, just not sennin transformation.

    all the hokage's appear to be chakra beasts around kisame's level with tsunade around the bottom.

    i am just waiting for sennin influence to be confirmed forvat least minato. his space time redirection of the bijuudama is ahead if kakashi's kamui redirection of bee and gai. kakashi needed fox chakra to assist, minato needed only a moment to mold chakra, his stance of being still really does suggest gathering sage/sennin chakra.
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  5. #75
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    omg that is an excellent tudbit! if oro lets the kage's join the fray then minato can teleport to either tsunade or kakashi or even both within seconds! i never thought about them having ftg seals on them!

    minato's chakra levels are probably almost in kisame class imo. he could match or muster insane amounts in a blink of an eye in quick succession. it makes me wonder if he had sennin boosts like kabuto gained, just not sennin transformation.

    all the hokage's appear to be chakra beasts around kisame's level with tsunade around the bottom.

    i am just waiting for sennin influence to be confirmed forvat least minato. his space time redirection of the bijuudama is ahead if kakashi's kamui redirection of bee and gai. kakashi needed fox chakra to assist, minato needed only a moment to mold chakra, his stance of being still really does suggest gathering sage/sennin chakra.
    Minato's greatest asset is his intelligence, followed by speed and knowledge of Uzumaki seals. However if he were to get a Chakra Boost from Naruto, the kind he's been handing out to the Allied Shinobis, it could be quite significant.

    ON THE OTHER HAND.....Minato is an Edo Zombie, he has unlimited Chakra......although I wonder what that really means. Even if he has unlimited Chakra, the amount he can channel is probably the same as when he was alive, he just won't run out of it.

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  6. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    omg that is an excellent tudbit! if oro lets the kage's join the fray then minato can teleport to either tsunade or kakashi or even both within seconds! i never thought about them having ftg seals on them!

    minato's chakra levels are probably almost in kisame class imo. he could match or muster insane amounts in a blink of an eye in quick succession. it makes me wonder if he had sennin boosts like kabuto gained, just not sennin transformation.

    all the hokage's appear to be chakra beasts around kisame's level with tsunade around the bottom.

    i am just waiting for sennin influence to be confirmed forvat least minato. his space time redirection of the bijuudama is ahead if kakashi's kamui redirection of bee and gai. kakashi needed fox chakra to assist, minato needed only a moment to mold chakra, his stance of being still really does suggest gathering sage/sennin chakra.
    While the tail end of the bold seems to be a good point, around the time of Naruto need to get trained to be a Sage, wasn't it mentioned that him and Jiraiya from the leaf village had the only base chakra levels necessary to do so? Therefore leaving Minato and possibly even Naruto's mom as less chakra than that, (unless she didn't count, because of trust/ relation/ w. e. etc.; even though she was married into the village and a part of the village, technically she might not be considered since Jiraya wasn't her master, and she was a part of the village while also not a part of the village because of previous village ties, + the nine tails chakra interference...
    w.e. never mind)


    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Minato's greatest asset is his intelligence, followed by speed and knowledge of Uzumaki seals. However if he were to get a Chakra Boost from Naruto, the kind he's been handing out to the Allied Shinobis, it could be quite significant.

    ON THE OTHER HAND.....Minato is an Edo Zombie, he has unlimited Chakra......although I wonder what that really means. Even if he has unlimited Chakra, the amount he can channel is probably the same as when he was alive, he just won't run out of it.
    Yes often thought about this as well. Also thought, Know it would make the E Zombies overkill, but it seems since they're copies of the base original zombies the clones should also contain a measure of their "zombie-ness" rebuilding factor as well; just maybe not to the level of constant reforming == immortal?

    P.S. Doesn't, ( even counting Kabuto's enhancements), Madara, Nagato, Itachi kind of mean/ prove that they (E Zombies) can channel more chakra than they could when they were alive?
    There are more things in heaven and earth then is dreamt of in your philosophy

  7. #77
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCarred Luffy Lvl:Z View Post
    While the tail end of the bold seems to be a good point, around the time of Naruto need to get trained to be a Sage, wasn't it mentioned that him and Jiraiya from the leaf village had the only base chakra levels necessary to do so? Therefore leaving Minato and possibly even Naruto's mom as less chakra than that, (unless she didn't count, because of trust/ relation/ w. e. etc.; even though she was married into the village and a part of the village, technically she might not be considered since Jiraya wasn't her master, and she was a part of the village while also not a part of the village because of previous village ties, + the nine tails chakra interference...
    w.e. never mind)




    Yes often thought about this as well. Also thought, Know it would make the E Zombies overkill, but it seems since they're copies of the base original zombies the clones should also contain a measure of their "zombie-ness" rebuilding factor as well; just maybe not to the level of constant reforming == immortal?

    P.S. Doesn't, ( even counting Kabuto's enhancements), Madara, Nagato, Itachi kind of mean/ prove that they (E Zombies) can channel more chakra than they could when they were alive?
    minato is intelligent for sure and is his best asset or one of his best. in your opinion and estimation, how large is his chakra pool or how fast can he regenerate chakra? was i far off by comparing it to kisame's level? the main clue i was going from was his matching of the bijuudama and yin fox seal with dead demon. sarutobi explained that dead demon sealing involved a tug of war in soul, stamina or chakra i cant remember but minato really impressed with his chakra use.

    as far as base level and sage chakra go, im still unsure there is a steep requirement with chakra pool size. kabuto was never impresive or giving reason to believe he had an above average chakra capacity. his self augmentations were all for abilities that did not involve extending his chakra capacity yet he could use proper sennin transformation and sennin techniques thanks mostly to studying at the dragon dimension but also thanks maybe to juugo's cells.

    i don't want to bring up the scribbled name on the contract scroll when naruto signed it to make his pact with the toads but i would not be surprised if minato could use sennin energy. in fact, i half suspect it. his posture more than once was that of gathering sage energy and the flying thunder god technique, even being his own specialty, is crazy disproportionate when he can do it solo multiple times in one go but his subordinates must concentrate with 3 casters just to use once. not being a bloodline limit but still having so much practical limitation is indication it is performed by minato with use of sennin energy.

    compare kabuto edo tensei infused with sennin energy vs orochimaru's edo tensei.

    there is clue also that chakra amounts for edo zombies is determined or dependent upon the caster.

    edit: revisiting pa frog sage explanation, i think the point is control of chakra and not capacity. the trick was being able to gather and most importantly, maintain delicate balance of stamina, chakra, and natural energy
    as far as i can tell, a shinobi can gather as much natural energy equal to his own chakra amount. that is a considerable factor as far as what sage jutsu is within reach of shinobi with smaller chakra pools.

    sakura would be an excellent sage. kabuto kind of proves this and without a doubt, minato has the control down better than almost anyone. his ftg to single handedly defeat a platoon in seconds is imo the most remarkable feat in all of naruto. it has to be sage chakra enhanced in order to not defy the power balance of established jutsus and shinobi.
    Last edited by knife eater; 02-17-2013 at 05:50 AM.
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  8. #78
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    edit: revisiting pa frog sage explanation, i think the point is control of chakra and not capacity. the trick was being able to gather and most importantly, maintain delicate balance of stamina, chakra, and natural energy
    as far as i can tell, a shinobi can gather as much natural energy equal to his own chakra amount. that is a considerable factor as far as what sage jutsu is within reach of shinobi with smaller chakra pools.

    sakura would be an excellent sage. kabuto kind of proves this and without a doubt, minato has the control down better than almost anyone. his ftg to single handedly defeat a platoon in seconds is imo the most remarkable feat in all of naruto. it has to be sage chakra enhanced in order to not defy the power balance of established jutsus and shinobi.
    Fukusaku said it would be useless for anyone but Jiraiya or Naruto trying to learn (frog) Sage mode as no one else had the chakra reserves to maintain it. Anyone technically can absorb natural energy (if they know how) but the key is without a massive chakra like Naruto's you will not be able to balance it with your own chakra and you will not be able to use sage mode. To me Minato cannot use Sage mode as he lacks the nessesary reserves to do so (and if he could Fukusaku would have mentioned it).

    In all of the flashbacks we have seen of him not a single clue or panel could have led us to believe he could use it. He managed all those feat's in the kyuubi/Obito fight (without sage mode), so if he did have sage mode he would be beyond godly - making it very unlikely he could.
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  9. #79
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    All the hokage's appear to be chakra beasts around kisame's level with tsunade around the bottom.
    I am not so sure. Tsunade may be a real disappointment when it comes to 1on1-fights, but her chakra-reserves are still insane. And she has been a great asset, nonetheless. I admit, during the fight against Oro, she appeared weak. Against Nagato, she was able to keep the whole village at relatively good health with Katsuyu and her chakra-transfer. She was even able to prevent the whole village-population from getting annihilated. We don't know anyone (living), that would have been able to do something that could weaken the effects of such a strong Shinra-Tensei. And in the fight against Madara, her chakra-levels don't look lower than that of her collegues. So she may not be the perfect fighter, but her chakra-levels are great.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nano View Post
    Fukusaku said it would be useless for anyone but Jiraiya or Naruto trying to learn (frog) Sage mode as no one else had the chakra reserves to maintain it. Anyone technically can absorb natural energy (if they know how) but the key is without a massive chakra like Naruto's you will not be able to balance it with your own chakra and you will not be able to use sage mode. To me Minato cannot use Sage mode as he lacks the nessesary reserves to do so (and if he could Fukusaku would have mentioned it).

    In all of the flashbacks we have seen of him not a single clue or panel could have led us to believe he could use it. He managed all those feat's in the kyuubi/Obito fight (without sage mode), so if he did have sage mode he would be beyond godly - making it very unlikely he could.
    Don't forget, that Naruto didn't know Minato was his father back then. Maybe that's why Fukasaku didn't mention Minato. It's possible Minato wasn't a sage, but he developped the Rasengan on his own, so his chakra-control is virtually perfect. And actually, we have never seen Minato in an all-out-battle, where he had to use every card in the deck. His only decent fight was against Kurama, but to our knowledge, it's not possible to kill a bijuu, so he had to seal him. To put it bluntly: We simply don't know how strong he is. We only know he is a seal-expert, mastered the Rasengan and is rather quick.

    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    ON THE OTHER HAND.....Minato is an Edo Zombie, he has unlimited Chakra......although I wonder what that really means. Even if he has unlimited Chakra, the amount he can channel is probably the same as when he was alive, he just won't run out of it.
    Makes sense, good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    sakura would be an excellent sage. kabuto kind of proves this and without a doubt, minato has the control down better than almost anyone. his ftg to single handedly defeat a platoon in seconds is imo the most remarkable feat in all of naruto. it has to be sage chakra enhanced in order to not defy the power balance of established jutsus and shinobi.
    As I thought a long time ago:

    *show-off-mode-ON*
    http://www.mangashare.com/forums/thr...-Sakura-a-Sage
    *show-off-mode-off*

  10. #80
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    im sorry but with minato's handling of the kyubi in 3 different ways in one event puts to task that his chakra levels were anything less than "well above average l". the kyubi bijudama he matched. that alone would elimate how much of the world's shinobi who wouldn't be able to cope with nijuudama chakra levels? he then summons gamabunta (how many summoners can even summon a boss? only the best ones with plenty of chakra). teleports the kyubi (how much chakra is he matching ecactly when it was said have the amount of whatever is going to be used by his space time). then, with dead demon seal, had chakra enough to wrestle the yin portion of kyubi who was nowhere near exhausted. this was the kyubi still fresh and plenty of fight left! compare that to when sarutobi had run out and could barely manage to pull orochimaru's arms. sealing with dead demon definitely relies partly on chakra levels when it comes to how long you keep the seal active and what you pull into the seal.

    minato's chakra levels to me are nothing less than extraordinary. it's hard to have a clear picture of the narutoverse chakra spectrum but when you consider chakra capacity increasing through age and use it's easy to expect minato surpassing any of the legendary sannin by his 40's and 50's.

    i guess what confuses the estimation and guessing of chakra capacity is from several reasons.

    speed of chakra regeneration and stamina factor. chakra control - poor control means large amounts of chakra wasted so this lends to idea of bigger pools. quality of chakra - certain elements yet to be explained seem to impact our idea of chakra in both quality and quantity.. mainly the senju and uzumaki chakra that inhabit durable and long lasting physical bodies.

    if i may be so bold, to reuse the bijuudama circumstance once more, that for minato would be the equivilent of naruto activating a mass kage bunahin with each having a rasengan.

    anyway, hashirama is going to be kisame level at least, probably higher.

    tobirama, no real demonstation of his power yet but i think everyone's gut feeling is he is a beast given his immediate family ties.

    hiruzen, every indication is that his chakra pool was rare and vast. it must have been to support so many jutsu that were acquired through real effort and not just copied with sharingan. his combat output at his old age is possible only with huge amounts of chakra.

    minato, coped with kyubi in 3 to 4 ways which point to exceptional amounts of chakra or perhaps use of sennin jutsu. i think everyone will have their own argument but is there enough to agree that his chakra level was above average (just what is average chakra pool anyway? kiba? asuma?). his mastery at chakra control is a huge bonus on that he can use smaller amounts of chakra efficiently and make it equal to a larger sum from a less accomplished ninja.

    tsunade, i think the smallest pool because she is two direct steps from hashirama in lineage but also above average for the same reason. no point really in even mentioning her but she is at least above "average"

    i hope someone can point out just what is the average chakra pool ninja so we can compare minato to that.

    im going with kiba and asuma, i chose for sake of average shinobi lifespan (not many old ninjas!)

    kiba at bottom end and asuma at top to cobstitute an "average" spectrum. asuma was chosen also to be unfairly generous to the top end of the spectrum for stronger contrast

    i wonder what you folks see in that.

    p.s. i have seen details that imply edo tensei does not grant "unlimited chakra" and instead just relaxes a few limutations without undoing them completely. i will use another preexisting thread for that.
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