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  1. #61
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    I don't buy the concept that Hashirama was just god gifted with his powers, I think he must have done something to activate them. We know that Hashirama was married to an Uzumaki from the Wirlpool nation a clan known for there powerful sealing abilities and a clan that is also closely connected to the Rikudou. I think it is quite likely that it was Hashirama's wife who helped him unlock his bloodline somehow. We have already seen that the Uzumaki had capabilities powerful enough to merit their destruction. Perhaps it was the Uzumaki who sealed away the Mokuton ability and so their knowledge was necessary to unlock it or perhaps she was able to some how fulfill the missing link between the clans. The Uzumaki as a whole seems to have more in common with the Younger Son of the Rikudou so likely the Senju Bloodline if fractured and only by uniting with an Uzumaki can a Senju awaken their true power. Just like how the Uchiha learned the secrets of their eyes from the Uchiha tablet, I believe a similar tablet likely existed in the Wirlpool village.
    Although it is weird, that Tobirama didn't develop Mokuton, your theory would make Yamato more skilled than Tobirama. That, I do not believe.

    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    It seems quite likely that it was Madara himself who destroyed the Uzumaki clan and that is partly why the Second Hokage fears him so much.
    It's a possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    If Itachi explored the ruins of the Wirlpool village and learned some of the secrets of the origin of the clans it would explain his understanding and commitment to the big picture. If Madara destroyed the Uzumaki clan and the Wirlpool village their knowledge of the origin of the clans would have been lost with them decreasing the chances of others learning what he had learned. Madara somehow knew about the Origin of the bloodlines and the connections between, I believe that is how he learned a lot of the secrets about the potential of the the bloodlines. I believe that the Wirlpool nation likely had the knowledge of how the bloodlines could be combined. That is also likely where Madara learned that the Uzumaki would be a good host for the Rinnegan.
    You are speculating a lot here, there are many IFs. But you are right, Uzumaki Nagato can use his Rinnegan better than Kakashi his Sharingan. Kakashi's Sharingan cannot be switched off, and it constantly drains his power when it's not covered. Meanwhile, Nagato had to activate his Rinnegan, although we never saw his Rinnegan switched off once it was awakened. So there is a good chance the Uzumaki-Clan has an advantage when it comes to taking over doujutsus.

    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    Orochimaru can likely restrict them without blocking their personalities though, Kabuto did it with several of the people he revived. You are right in saying that he probably has a plan, he had their genetic information on hand so its likely that he has thought this through quite well. He has probably set it so that he can take control if their is a need. I highly doubt that he has left the cooperation of the Hokages to chance.
    No, he wouldn't leave it to chance. Yet it wouldn't be the first time Orochimaru takes risks just for the fun of it. He provoqued Naruto until he went four-tails, and it wasn't easy for Oro to survive the fight that followed. He was absolutely sure the Third had nothing that could cause him trouble, but he did. In the end, Sarutobi rendered his arms useless for quite some time. So maybe Oro is convinced he is prepared, but it's entirely possible that these four have something up their sleeve he doesn't know about. Wouldn't be the first time.

  2. #62
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kuroihikari View Post
    That's thinking too much into it.

    If they kill Oro, they're unsummoned. Plus, theyd need a reason to do anything first. That's assuming of course, sneaky as Oro is, that he doesnt have other countermeasures in place. Unlike them who are literally just minutes into being temporarily alive.

    Youll have to consider also that these were the Hokage, embodiment of the will of fire. All of them died leaving everything to the next generation.

    Edit: Note that this exercise is being done to give Sasuke answers. I highly doubt Sasuke would trust corpses that are constrained by Oro.
    The Edo Tensei doesn't end if the caster is killed, remember?

  3. #63
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    Another thing that caught my attention this chapter, is that Sasuke only activated the regular Mangekyou, not the eternal Mangekyou. I would say it is merely a coincidence but as the past has shown, subtle differences like these are almost always done for a specific reason. I am very curious to see what Sasuke will learn from the tablet as well as the Hokages.
    Good catch, I didn't notice it at the beginning, perhaps it's a simple drawing error. It was awhile since Kishi draw his EMS, he might have forgotten how it looked like, not to mention that it was quite similar to his MS. Yet, if it wasn't a mistake, then Sasuke most likely activated it only up to MS level, because he wants to see what he can see through MS alone (remember that he only saw the tablet through his normal Sharingan) and then see what the last portion he can see is hidden by using his EMS.

  4. #64
    Senior Member Lakritze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Good catch, I didn't notice it at the beginning, perhaps it's a simple drawing error. It was awhile since Kishi draw his EMS, he might have forgotten how it looked like, not to mention that it was quite similar to his MS. Yet, if it wasn't a mistake, then Sasuke most likely activated it only up to MS level, because he wants to see what he can see through MS alone (remember that he only saw the tablet through his normal Sharingan) and then see what the last portion he can see is hidden by using his EMS.
    To be honest, I didn't even realise it's possible to just activate your own Mangekyou Sharingan. It seemed illogical to me, since Sasuke didn't have his "own" eyes anymore. Maybe he didn't want them to know that he has the EMS (as only the second person in history).

  5. #65
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Kishi probably screwed up... he's been inconsistent with Sasuke's Eternal Mangekyou, too. Sometimes they eyes are symmetrical, sometimes the inner design points in the opposite direction on each eye. I guess it's possible Sasuke can activate different stages of Mangekyou, but it doesn't really make sense.

  6. #66
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    Who could have guessed that Uchihas are genetically inclined to be emo.. I like it. Makes sense, especially in Obito's route to evil.

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

  7. #67
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    I guess that's the danger of having overly-charged Spiritual Energies... they react too heavily to one's mental state, especially considering the mental energies are already channeled through the eyes.

    Are we to understand that Uchiha emotions are naturally more intense, and thus harder to handle on an objective, rational level? And what does Tobirama mean when he states that the Uchiha "sealed their love off" themselves for that reason? Does he mean they became a clan with strict standards for self-control / emotional repression? Or is it something in the Uchiha's mind that literally needs to be unlocked?

    I feel like this development pushes the Uchiha characters too far down the path of symbolism.... they were already representative of intense love that can easily turn to intense hatred or anguish, but this genetic explanation (even if it ties in with what we already knew about unlocking the Mangekyou) is just too much. Not only that, Tobirama makes it sound like he's seen quite a few Uchiha unlock their MS, when until now it seemed like a rare phenomenon.

  8. #68
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    Frankly I don't see a better possibility or "excuse" as to why they as a clan are so emotionally unstable. I prefer the word exaggerated or caricature to describe the situation.

    This could be why Obito was picked..if he was picked. I wonder since Obito was an unstrict person, when he activated his mangenkou is that why he basically went over the edge and had a dramatic shift in persona. Because obviously he couldn't be the only "goofy" uchiha.

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

  9. #69
    Just out of curiosity, what happened to that extra Zetsu that was pulled out of Sasuke? Four of them went to the Edo Tensei, one was for the Orochimaru switcheroo, but did that last Zetsu get killed or something? Even so, could it still be used for a final summoning?

  10. #70
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
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    Well, if you think about it, Tobirama having seen a few Uchiha unlock their Mangekyo Sharingan wouldn't be too strange. Their time period was full of war, which naturally places a huge emotional strain on people. If there was a time that would be guaranteed to unlock the Uchiha clan's visual prowess, it'd be that. As for the Uchiha clan "sealing" part of themselves away, I think that was more a figurative way of speaking as opposed to literally sealing something away. You ever heard the saying "Still waters run deep"? It means that often times if a person acts calm and reserved, they actually have a deep emotional ocean underneath the surface. And family members can often share the same mental/emotional traits. But often times with people like this, you don't actually see their emotions run rampant until some sort of tragedy occurs, and one of the usual responses to tragedy is anger.

    I could go on to say, anger leads to hate, etc., but I don't like crossing genres.

    Anyways, we've seen this response in Sasuke throughout the entire manga. He acts cool and rational, then something happens which provokes and reveals his emotions, and it pushes his powers up a level. The same thing happened with Obito. And from what we've seen, it happened to Madara as well. Now we've gotten confirmation that it's a family trait, so in a way, it makes Sasuke less special than before, since this sort of powering up could potentially happen to any Uchiha in the right set of circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Veej View Post
    Just out of curiosity, what happened to that extra Zetsu that was pulled out of Sasuke? Four of them went to the Edo Tensei, one was for the Orochimaru switcheroo, but did that last Zetsu get killed or something? Even so, could it still be used for a final summoning?
    It was absorbed by Juugo I believe: http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/618/15

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