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  1. #111
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    @paul, rather than Sasuke forcing them to tell him their secrets, he will simply tell them to tell him their true dark story and not the happy version that most people are spewing around. A dark side of the village and what Kohona has done, will come up while they tell their story. Thus, Sasuke will learn the truth (it's all about it anyway, since Sasuke have already heard Tobi's/Madara's version of the story).

    BTW. This reminded me that Kakashi was quite lucky that Tobi was the first one to meet up with Sasuke after his fight with Itachi. Otherwise, Kakashi might have been dead because of Itachi's Amaterasu Trap, seeing as he and Obito have eyes from the same pair.
    That was one of many reasons I thought that Tobi couldn't have been Obito. Because Saskue met Kakashi and team 7 back in the Danzo fight. So I guess it must have been a one shot deal, but then why would Tobi put his mask back on..? So confusing.

    Remember if Saskue asks what is a village for, its a loaded question. Saskue is wondering why they would annihilate an entire clan because of a few differences. I believe the answer is power, uchihas had it in spades. Honestly it will make his argument seem substantial and not child like, which everyone is thinking.

    You know, he is just whining about his sad life. Emos are out of style, Hipsters like Naruto are in. He is angry but doesn't know who to be angry at. That I believe is going to be Naruto's opening statement when they face each other again. If I were in Saskue's place, I would be angry too and I wouldn't know who to be angry at. Definitely not at the villagers because they have no clue what happened. Danzo is already dead, and he ordered the uchiha massacre. So were does he put all that rage?

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

  2. #112
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @Guy,

    Everyone with any sense knows that the Village is not without sin/faults. Itachi did say a few times that despite the Hypocracy and contradictions, He is still Uchiha Itachi of the Leaf. I think that Sasuke wants (in part) to find out just what about the Village Engenders so much loyalty from Itachi.

    Actualiy, If you recall, both Shisui and Itachi were loyal to Konoha inspite of everything they suffered, so I can see where Sasuke's last and final meeting with Edo Itachi made him feel like he wanted to know the unvarnished trooths about What Konoha stood for and why it held so much value to Itach.

    Problem is that Sasuke already knows the truth about Konoha, he learnt it from Tobi, The Main falsehood that Tobi said was that He Totally Lied about the Fox attack on Konoha. Well since Sasuke knows that Tobi helped Itachi kill the Uchiha, how would knowledge of The Uchiha involvement in the Fox's attack change much for him. Another possible lie from Tobi was that Madara's brother willingly gave up his eyes.

    Seems to me that Sasuke will find out from Shodaime that Madara is a War Loving Power Seeker, He'll find out from Nidaime whyThey were given the police force and yet could not be trusted. He'll find out from Sandaime that He really wanted to make peace, He'll find out from Yondaime that Tobi actually brought the fox to Konoha, thereby causing trouble for Uchihas.

    Will it change anything?....

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  3. #113
    Senior Member lazybum's Avatar
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    Tobi told Sasuke the Uchiha's side of the Konoha-Uchiha history. In order to understand Itachi's actions, and choices, Sasuke would also need to hear the other side, that of the village.
    The Hokages are probably the only people who can completely narrate the actions, and stance that the village took in this regard, and explain the reasoning behind it all.

  4. #114
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    As for possible developement, I can see Homura and Koharu following orochimaru and co. down in the uchiha hideout.
    What if they somehow notice they're in the village and meet the intruders alongside the 4 kages? They know some truth about konoha themselves, being two of the oldest top autorithies of the village. I think they might either try to prevent the kages from telling anything, or they will add something to their information. It's only my guess, that could be totally wrong.

  5. #115
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Yoru, any thoughts on Tobi's continued obsession with Sasuke? I'm not sure that it's as obvious as it might seem at all.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #116
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Yoru, any thoughts on Tobi's continued obsession with Sasuke? I'm not sure that it's as obvious as it might seem at all.
    Well, Tobi is partly made of Hashirama/Zetsu cells, so it's possible that he already got the info of what happened with Sasuke. Then again, they didn't seem to have enough time to send info through roots (yet I think they mentioned something about telepathical connection ?).

    Madara is useful for now and it seems that he himself doesn't know that Obito have different alternatives than reviving him. The reason why Obito is still cocky and the way he answers to Madara's demands is because he believes that Sasuke is still in his hands... well he was until this chapter.

    The moment that Obito realizes that the spies in Sasuke's body have been eliminated, he might leave the rest of the fight in Madara's and Jyubi's hands and go to where the last position of the Zetsus and Sasuke's was registered. If he looses Sasuke then he will need to revive Madara.

    This way Minato would able to see with his own dead zombie eyes, that Tobi, the one who unleashed the Kyubi on Konoha, is his former disciple. Since Kakashi is currently powered up by Kurama X Naruto's chakra more than ever, he might be even able to follow him through dimensional transfer.


    Now that I think about it, aren't Tobi and Madara waiting for the Jyubi to fully mature ? If so, wouldn't it be better to send Jyubi to the other side of the earth, wait until it matures and then calmly seal it in someone ? Unless they still want to capture the 8 and 9 tails before that happens.

  7. #117
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    @Paul

    In first place, my information may be limited. Maybe I missed some pieces of story, but what does tobi exactly need Sasuke for? Zero, said up here that Sasuke is in his eyes a substitute for Madara. He wants to use sasuke for what madara was supposed to be used in the original plan. But...WHAT exactly was madara supposed to do in the original plan? I think Tobi doesen't need Madara nor sasuke to link to the mazou...he too has a rinnegan, so he can control the juubi himself, and he could become its jinchuuriki without needing madara or any other help.

    That said, i thing Zero is right. Sasuke is very important to obito. He needs him, apparently and he thinks he still has sasuke at the hideout. It's true he promised sasuke to kabuto after the end of the war, but i think it was an utter lie. If tobi somehow notices sasuke has followed orochimaru in konoha...i bet he would do something. I don't know what, but he can't stay indifferent in this situation. Then another question arises. How to flee without Madara noticing? Madara doesen't know about Sasuke uchiha. If he learned Obito prepared a substitute for himself, i guess he would attempt to kill sasuke so obito has no other option than reviving him. Killing obito for betrayal would be unintelligent, since he's the only one capable of rinne tensei.

  8. #118
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Okay, about Sasuke.

    The reasons I can Imagine now for Tobi's interest in Sasuke is perhaps to Steal his EMS, perhaps his own single Sharingan won't be adequate,or to perform Rinne Tensei, and revive Madara or Rin, without suffering the Death Penalty himself.

    Knowing what we know now, Tobi may or may not be too keen on Reviving Madara, because Madara might not want to use the Juubi for Eternal Tsukuyomi. Probably because once the Juubi's chakra is used like that, it may be used up and not be available for any other purpose. So If Eternal Tsukuyomi ties up the Juubi's Chakra, then Madara may not really want to perform it.

    As for Casting Eternal Tsukuyomi itself, I expect Tobi would want to do that himself, not wanting to entrust this all important task to Madara or anyone else, BUT if one sharingan (that was not from a powerful set or PAIR), was inadequate, then stealing Sasuke's eyes may be his plan.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  9. #119
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It Just bothers me that Sandaime who knew about the Death Demon Seal:

    Spoiler!


    ......Would not have sent Anbu to the old Izumaki outpost to search for any dangerous and valuable things there. The Uzumaki were known for their sealing techniques and they were feared, which is why their village was destroyed.

    Worst, it's not as if the mask was hidden, it was right there hanging on a wall as soon as Oro and Sasuke's group went inside the building.

    Now if I was a bad guy who wanted to use the DDS Mask, I'd just put some poor fool in a genjutsu and make them die for me. This would have been easy for Itachi, or for Ino or her father to do.

    Every clan has secrets not shared with outsiders the Uzumaki clan is no different. Considering the Death god seal is probably one of their strongest sealing jutsu the secret of how to release something from it would be a even higher secret.



    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Spoiler!

    .
    There is one missing. "What is a plot device ! "



    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Yoru, any thoughts on Tobi's continued obsession with Sasuke? I'm not sure that it's as obvious as it might seem at all.
    Easy we already learned this because Madara needs a sacrifice to become whole. Why should Tobi sacrifice himself when he can use a pawn. This is exactly how he referred to Nagato after he died as a pawn who needed to be replaced by Sasuke.



    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Okay, about Sasuke.

    The reasons I can Imagine now for Tobi's interest in Sasuke is perhaps to Steal his EMS, perhaps his own single Sharingan won't be adequate,or to perform Rinne Tensei, and revive Madara or Rin, without suffering the Death Penalty himself.
    Um why would he need Sasuke's eyes when he has Madara's that already have Rinnegans. Nagato's role was to be a sacrifice to revive the real Madara so he could become the jinchuuriki and cast his ultimate genjutsu on the moon. Sasuke is just a replacement.


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  10. #120
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    Every clan has secrets not shared with outsiders the Uzumaki clan is no different. Considering the Death god seal is probably one of their strongest sealing jutsu the secret of how to release something from it would be a even higher secret.
    As I demonstrated in my link, Sandaime knew about the Death God Jutsu before Yondaime died. If so any left over artifacts relating to the death God should have been Sequestered by the Hokage for safe keeping. To not do so is negligent.



    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    Easy we already learned this because Madara needs a sacrifice to become whole. Why should Tobi sacrifice himself when he can use a pawn. This is exactly how he referred to Nagato after he died as a pawn who needed to be replaced by Sasuke.
    Nagato weilded the Rinnegan, so he could activate Rinne Tensei. Sasuke doesn't have a Rinnegan, unless Tobi was planning on giving him Madara's eyes?



    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post

    Um why would he need Sasuke's eyes when he has Madara's that already have Rinnegans. Nagato's role was to be a sacrifice to revive the real Madara so he could become the jinchuuriki and cast his ultimate genjutsu on the moon. Sasuke is just a replacement.
    To cast the ultimate genjutsu You need a) Powerful Sharingans not Rinnegans, and You probably need a Pair. b) You also need to become the Jinchuuriki of the Juubi.

    Sure Tobi has Madara's eyes, but unlike Madara, I don't think Tobi Can Revert them backand forth into Sharingans like Madara can. And we have seen that Rinnegans can't do Sharingan techniques, at least Madara had to revert his eyes to Sharingans in order to do Sharingan Techs.

    The problem for Tobi is that if he were to perform Rinne Tensei for Madara and bring Madara back, he has no way of knowing whether Madara would go ahead with The Eternal Genjutsu, or if he were to do the Genjutsu first, and then die doing Rinne Tensei, he has no way of knowing that Madara would not undo the Genjutsu later.

    As I see it, the only way for Sasuke to do the Rinne Tensei is if he were given Madara's Rinnegans. However, I am not convinced that this is Tobi's plan. Tobi wants to sync Sasuke to the Gedou (JUUBI), perhaps as its Jinchuuriki. This idea is only significant for performing the Eternal Tsukuyomi.

    This tells me that Tobi wants to use Sasuke either directly as a Jinchuuriki for the Juubi, or he'll take Sasuke's Complete Pair of eyes for the same reason for himself since I don't think he can revert Madara's Rinnegans back to Sharingans (Something that I believe only Madara himself can do).
    Last edited by paulbee; 02-04-2013 at 09:14 PM.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

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