Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

[knife eater]

I think it's just OK. I was annoyed that Madara and Obito just stand there doing nothing, waiting SA to cut them! now I just want to know what Sasuke is doing there.

they do appear as lame ducks but it cant be helped. keeping the juubi under any level of their influence requires extreme concentration and energy. if i may, i will try and improve your enjoyment of this chapter.. you see, madara and obito were not just standing there.. obiti was doing a fine job running his mouth and decided to make a comment illustrative of the hyuga branch family seal. he called it a cage where they wait to to die and then he follows up by making a literal cage around that hyuga with the juubi extremities. that was at least "something" to show that they are paying some attention but then lo and behold, neji's symbolic manifestation of the eagle breaks that cage in perfect allusion to himself breaking it with naruto's "power' at the conclusion of the chuunin fight. the allusion on whole neatly wrapped up all the significant pieces.

we are then treated to a brief panic of both obito and madara as their "bonds" were physically broken from the juubi. it was a whole lesser tit for tat play on the uchiha and power + bond themes as well as sequentially retaining definition of "cage" and themselves being freed from the juubi (you could interpret as naruto showing obito how he us licking himself up in the same cage by "self inflicted" curse of he is blind to.

they weren't simply doing nothing. they were, however, performing classic failures from the villain schools of pride, talking too much, and biting off more than they can chew.

[paulbee]

I think it's just OK. I was annoyed that Madara and Obito just stand there doing nothing, waiting SA to cut them! now I just want to know what Sasuke is doing there.

I think they are somewhat limited in what they could do while linked to the Juubi with Mokuton.

[Rlinfamous]

It's just confusing that Obito could use his Kamui to save himself, while Madara couldn't summon Susano'o armor around himself/the Mokuton binding. Oh well, at least now we might get treated to some action with Madara/Obito entering the fight, considering they're the two best-suited to surviving the Juubi's rampage anyway. Watching them stand on its head has gotten stale; things are finally moving again with their link broken and Sasuke finally making progress in his mission.

[Temperjoke]

It's just confusing that Obito could use his Kamui to save himself, while Madara couldn't summon Susano'o armor around himself/the Mokuton binding. Oh well, at least now we might get treated to some action with Madara/Obito entering the fight, considering they're the two best-suited to surviving the Juubi's rampage anyway. Watching them stand on its head has gotten stale; things are finally moving again with their link broken and Sasuke finally making progress in his mission.

I think Obito's use of Kamui for protection is actually a reflex rather than conscious thought. After all, he used that defense immediately after his Mangekyo Sharingan was unlocked with no training in it at all.

[paulbee]

It's just confusing that Obito could use his Kamui to save himself, while Madara couldn't summon Susano'o armor around himself/the Mokuton binding. Oh well, at least now we might get treated to some action with Madara/Obito entering the fight, considering they're the two best-suited to surviving the Juubi's rampage anyway. Watching them stand on its head has gotten stale; things are finally moving again with their link broken and Sasuke finally making progress in his mission.

Obito could Always shift parts of his body to the alternate dimension, so it's not surprising that he did so to avoid the FRS. If you think about it what he did is not inconsistent with what he had always done. Madara on the other hand may have been forced to encompass the Whole humongous Juubi inside his Susanoo, and who knows, besides the Juubi's size maybe it has properties that may resist the formation of the Susanoo.

I thought the time used standing on the Juubi's head was a way/excuse for Kishi to feature/focus upon the potency of Juubi Bijuu Darma, and that Mokuton could be used through the Juubi. What is uncertain is whether the Juubi itself has Mokuton, whether the Mokuton was Obito's that was expressed through the Juubi, and whether the Mokuto is a property that the Origina Juubi had back when the SO6P was around, or whether this Juubi had been modified by Madara/Obito for Mokuton.

If Mokuton has always been a power the Original Juubi had (like the Sharinga is), then it makes sense how also like the Sharingan, Mokuton was effective in binding/controling Bijuus.

[Zero]

I'm quite sure the reason why Madara didn't or rather couldn't use his eye powers, is because he was concentrated on pumping up Jyubi's power, while Obito's jutsu works automatically, on the contrary, when his MS is activated he needs to concentrate to stop using it, as when we have seen him first being unable to grab Rin without concentrating on it. Madara basically responds to Naruto's powering everyone up, by him and Obito powering the Jyubi as well. You can even notice that both Madara and Obito have a hard time breaking through the shadow and meat bindings (they even produce sound effects ). They are constantly trembling.

[Jean-Marie]

It's just confusing that Obito could use his Kamui to save himself, while Madara couldn't summon Susano'o armor around himself/the Mokuton binding. ....

Madara might just have wrongly assumed he could just absorbed the attack. He didn't know rock Lee. Rock Lee is using taijutsu. No one else does. Rock Lee is one of the few that has an asset against Madara. Guy tried the same but he wasn't fox-powered then. To me, the blow from Lee makes sense.

No, nothing about elements was even mentioned. Only that he converted the Kyuubi's chakra in such a way that everyone could use it. This has no bearing on elements as it's still up to the individual to manipulate the chakra to their element.

Are you sure ? Kyubi says (http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/16372516/8) that Naruto was able to match everyone's unique individual traits, and the only chakra traits that a chakra has, of what we know, are elemental affinity and yin and yang ratio. If he matched their traits trough chakra, doesn't that mean that he matched their elemental affinity then?

it is mentioned Naruto can match their chakra, not that he can copy their ability to mold the chakra in the same elements as them. I'm still thinking he can still use wind only at the moment.

This may seem Trite, but :-
1) How was it possible for all the Ninjas to fly?
2) And I assume that excludes the Nara Clan who are still performing Kage Mane on the Juubi.
3) Does it mean that Naruto now has the power of flight?

I'll reply all together to others about their comment on Neji.I understood it that way. The Hyūga entrust and encage the bird in their leader. Here thus Neji. The bird is a bird, thus it can fly of course. That is what birds do. It seems to me (even though it is not obvious from the drawing) that all shinobis are in the bird and it is the way they are brouth that quickly to Obito and Madara. With Naruto and Bee being in the tip of the bill of the bird. The Hyūga Clan is one of the more powerful. Others have tailed beast, shark, Susanoo. It makes sense that Hyūga also have their own super monster. It is not even that hype, as it can be used only once. Plus, it is used only after you dye. I'm also under the impression that it is not the Jubi arms that are severed but the Hyūga cage. Thus the expected way the bird is leaving his cage after your death.

[Afro Thunda]

You guys seem to be conveniently forgetting that Obito and Madara could barely move themselves at that moment thanks to some kyuubi chakra-infused binding techniques.

And the bird thing has nothing to with super monsters or anything. It was all symbolism and a sendoff for Neji, who's been portrayed as a bird stuck in a cage, trying to break free and fly away. Anything else you pull from that whole scenario is just over-thinking it.

[paulbee]

You guys seem to be conveniently forgetting that Obito and Madara could barely move themselves at that moment thanks to some kyuubi chakra-infused binding techniques.

And the bird thing has nothing to with super monsters or anything. It was all symbolism and a sendoff for Neji, who's been portrayed as a bird stuck in a cage, trying to break free and fly away. Anything else you pull from that whole scenario is just over-thinking it.

For sure it ain't no super monster, and yes it's symbolism, but even so, As an actual event it should still have some explanation of what it is, and that is what completely eludes me. I am almost tempted to say that it's stupid?

I have to disgree on Tobi and Madara a little. In the end they did Jump off the Juubi's back on their own accord (the Nara clan binding being still in effect).

I think the reason they didn't move earlier was because they wanted to preserve their mokuton link to the Juubi at all costs and that would be hard to do if they moved.

[Afro Thunda]

For sure it ain't no super monster, and yes it's symbolism, but even so, As an actual event it should still have some explanation of what it is, and that is what completely eludes me. I am almost tempted to say that it's stupid?

It was symbolism and a sendoff for Neji. Nothing more, nothing less. An explanation eludes you because there isn't one to be given. It just like how we're treated to a closeup of a snake most of the time when Orochimaru makes appearances.

I have to disgree on Tobi and Madara a little. In the end they did Jump off the Juubi's back on their own accord (the Nara clan binding being still in effect).

I think the reason they didn't move earlier was because they wanted to preserve their mokuton link to the Juubi at all costs and that would be hard to do if they moved.

Nah, you can see it when Tobi and Madara are trying to form hand signs on top of the Juubi. They're trembling as they make hand signs because they're struggling to move. Even if they're linked to the Juubi, it's not like they're rendered immobile. If they could have dodged the attacks, they would have.