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  1. #51
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Nice to have you back Yellowcardus, after 2 months Hiatus .

    Your theory which could be revealed to be truth, is that beyond the Sharingan is the Rinnegan, and beyond the Rinnegan is the Sharingan and Rinnegan mix, and That I suppose is what the Juubi currently possesses.

    Am I correct?

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  2. #52
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    Yes, yes indeed that's what i'm thinking. And also, that since Kurama is a mass of hatred. Then perhaps all of the bijuu's are a concentrated mass of a single feeling. (By SO6P's desingn) because the Juubi had/has far too many thought's to think rationaly (i.e. evoke concious thought) and that's what alows them to have a personality, and decide things for themselves.

    It wasn't really a hiatus, my acount got blocked due to some unfortunate mistake, and i was working to somehow get it back.
    It's good to be back :]

  3. #53
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Well Yellowcardus, I see nothing fundamentally wrong with your theory to make it impossible. It however begs one question while inspiring another.

    1) How could the SO6P, Lacking a Rinnegan completely and utterly defeat a being such as the Juubi? Even if we say that the Juubi lacks malice and made no attempt to target the So6P, In other words the Juubi just ignores the SO6P Completely and made no attempt to attack him, neither was it even concerned with whatever the SO6P was doing to it. Even if this were the case, I still find it hard to swallow that the SO6P could ever have defeated the Juubi, unless if he too already had similar powers before their confrontation.

    2) I think that it is a complete falsehood to say that the Kyuubi was ever a Mass of Hatred. Kishimoto has revised and reviewed that notion.

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  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Well Yellowcardus, I see nothing fundamentally wrong with your theory to make it impossible. It however begs one question while inspiring another.

    1) How could the SO6P, Lacking a Rinnegan completely and utterly defeat a being such as the Juubi? Even if we say that the Juubi lacks malice and made no attempt to target the So6P, In other words the Juubi just ignores the SO6P Completely and made no attempt to attack him, neither was it even concerned with whatever the SO6P was doing to it. Even if this were the case, I still find it hard to swallow that the SO6P could ever have defeated the Juubi, unless if he too already had similar powers before their confrontation.

    2) I think that it is a complete falsehood to say that the Kyuubi was ever a Mass of Hatred. Kishimoto has revised and reviewed that notion.
    When did that happen? O_o. I know that Kurama is not all hate and no love, but during the Tug of war he had with naruto, when his chakras started ovecoming Naruto, those were feelings of hatred exclusively. I'm not saying Kurama is evil mind you. It's just that i think if the juubi has no consiousnes (which is not certain) than perhaps the reason for that, is because he is the personalites of all people and things combined, which in turn makes it unable to reason. by separating each distinct part of it's thoughts into 9 beast's. 9 speparate personalities could be created. Neither of which was specificaly hateful or good.

    But this IS only based on the idea that Kurama is a lumb of hatred, and juubi has no concious mind. Both of with could very well be false.

    As for part one of your post, TBH i also dont belive someone without rinnegan could seal away the juubi but i still think it can't be ruled out.

  5. #55
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    There was no specific chapter where Kurama was declared to not be a mass of Hatred, there are however chapters where he is shown to enhance life. His chakra color is yellow, and he makes plants grow and enhances mokuton.

    It's true that in the early chapters, the Kyuubi's chakra was Poisonous, and comprised of Hatred. I however think that the Chakra merely reflects the dominant will controling it. At the time, Kyuubi was full of Hatred, so his chakra reflected hatred. When Naruto gained control of the chakra, it began to relect something else.


    Spoiler!



    In the Image above, read the first panel (top right) carefully. It says "The nine tails MIND is just a malevolent mass of hate tied to a hugely powerful chakra"

    Clearly, it's the 9Tails Mind that's hatred, not its chakra.
    Last edited by paulbee; 12-29-2012 at 06:54 PM.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  6. #56
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Given their tendency to wanna destroy everything and Kill All Humans whenever they make their appearance (confirmed in the cases of the 1-tail, 8-tails, 9-tails), I highly doubt they're all individually masses of one specific emotion. They just don't like stuff, and so they go on rampages.

  7. #57
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    Given their tendency to wanna destroy everything and Kill All Humans whenever they make their appearance (confirmed in the cases of the 1-tail, 8-tails, 9-tails), I highly doubt they're all individually masses of one specific emotion. They just don't like stuff, and so they go on rampages.
    Obviously one has to read between the lines to comprehend what the Key Toad was saying OR should have been saying. The Nine Tails' mind is NOT LITERALLY "just" a mass of hatred. However, the Nine Tails mind was Consumed with Hatred toward Man. The same was true for all the Tailed beasts, who saw humans as oppressors. Centuries of persecution and enslavement by humans had caused the Bijuus to be nearly maddened with anger, resentment, and hatred toward the humans who had misused and abused them.

    So Obviously I do not subscribe to the view by Yellowcardus that somehow each Bijuu represented an expression of the Juubi's emotional mind, whereby the 9Tails represented its hatred emotion.

    So now, currently, as soon as the 9Tails let go of his hatred (due to Naruto's influence), COULD IT BE THAT--- the true nature of his chakra is revealed to be one that enhances life energy, or could it simply be that the Kyuubi's chakra now reflects Naruto's state of mind, which is warm and life enhancing (as it was sense by Karin).

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  8. #58
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    Well i must admit, Paulbee all thing's considered, your reasoning is very true. Kurama is unlikely to represent hatred, because he wasn't shown to be specifically geared toward's that feeling. At least compared to other bijuu's, he's just as good, and just as evil.

    What's really interesting to me right know, is what will happen when Obito and Madara inevitably loose control of the Juubi. Will it go on a rampage? turn on them? ==> Does it feel? or think? if it does it SHOULD turn on them, is what i'm thinking.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    Given their tendency to wanna destroy everything and Kill All Humans whenever they make their appearance (confirmed in the cases of the 1-tail, 8-tails, 9-tails), I highly doubt they're all individually masses of one specific emotion. They just don't like stuff, and so they go on rampages.
    Well, I'm quite sure that Shukaku just loves killing, since his first host after So6p was probably a homicidal maniac (the legend about it relates to it, so it's probably like that). The one he doesn't like, is Kurama.

    The only times we actually saw a Bijuu willingly destroying everything around them, is when they manage to get out of their prison inside their host, or when they are attacked. Rather than simple revenge, it seems to me that they try to prevent another sealing, the moment they manage to get out outside.



  10. #60
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Obviously one has to read between the lines to comprehend what the Key Toad was saying OR should have been saying. The Nine Tails' mind is NOT LITERALLY "just" a mass of hatred. However, the Nine Tails mind was Consumed with Hatred toward Man. The same was true for all the Tailed beasts, who saw humans as oppressors. Centuries of persecution and enslavement by humans had caused the Bijuus to be nearly maddened with anger, resentment, and hatred toward the humans who had misused and abused them.

    So Obviously I do not subscribe to the view by Yellowcardus that somehow each Bijuu represented an expression of the Juubi's emotional mind, whereby the 9Tails represented its hatred emotion.

    So now, currently, as soon as the 9Tails let go of his hatred (due to Naruto's influence), COULD IT BE THAT--- the true nature of his chakra is revealed to be one that enhances life energy, or could it simply be that the Kyuubi's chakra now reflects Naruto's state of mind, which is warm and life enhancing (as it was sense by Karin).
    I would imagine Kishi will expand on this soon. The Kyuubi's chakra has properties that the other Bijuu lack; for instance, the Kyuubi requested that Guy be handed to him for healing, while Guy had been sitting atop the Hachibi all along. Healing definitely seems to be a property of strong Yang energies, as many notable Senju/Uzumaki have been known to be healers. This leaves several options:

    1. The Kyuubi's own chakra is currently in a purified Yang state, and thus is more "specialized" towards healing / Life Force / etc.
    2. The Kyuubi possesses some unique trait bestowed upon it by the SO6P.
    3. The Kyuubi is simply magnifying Naruto's own Uzumaki physical energies/life force.

    You've pretty much hit on all of these, but I'd like to expand a bit:

    4. The answer to these questions could be directly related to why Naruto has his "Chakra Modes" resembling the SO6P and Killer Bee does not. In short, is it Naruto's Uzumaki lineage, the fact that he's the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki, or a combination of the two?

    Personally, I'm hoping that all these unique traits are tied more to the Kyuubi and less to Naruto. We've all seen the Kyuubi heal Naruto from severe injuries; in light of what we know about Karin / to a lesser extent Hashirama, I'm hoping that Naruto is actually the cause of that healing power.

    I would prefer the possibility that the Kyuubi is currently magnifying Naruto's own powers; currently, even if Naruto is the only one able to become the Kyuubi Jinchuuriki and use a perfect Sage Mode without body augmentations, I feel he needs more of his own powers. I'd like an explanation that proves his Chakra Modes to be at least partially a result of his own strength, as they clearly separate him from other Jinchuuriki as far as we've seen.

    Another interesting factor is the Chakra Mode's ability to sense malice/hatred. This actually supports the notion that the Kyuubi's chakra IS somehow uniquely tied to the emotion of "hatred" (which I really don't like all that much, even though the Kyuubi has always been connected with the Uchiha clan...). However, Karin is a sensor type, and has an acute ability to sense the "warm/cold" of peoples' chakra. Perhaps that is *somehow* an Uzumaki-style sensory ability? =/

    We're all trying to juggle all these traits we know regarding the Uzumaki clan and Naruto's Jinchuuriki powers; Naruto has never exhibited such powers outside of being a Jinchuuriki, but then he's always BEEN a Jinchuuriki.

    One question I've got is that, if Karin had healing powers on par with what we've seen from Naruto, why couldn't she heal the damage from Sasuke's Chidori? She and Naruto are basically the two people we've seen pierced by that attack, with drastically different results (despite both being incapacitated and Karin possessing the greater knowledge of healing arts). This definitely lends credit to the notion that, at the very least, Naruto's possible healing powers have been augmented by the Kyuubi.

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