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  1. #41
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    Yes she did say that to Naruto, but it was due to the fact that he was being targeted by Akatsuki and because she didn't want him to get hurt once again and do things (like begging on his knees in front of the Raikage), because the promise he made when Sasuke went to orochimaru with the sound 5.

    It can go either way, Hinata or Sakura, it all depends on what kishi wants, maybe he wont go with either one, he could die like he said to Sasuke after the fight with Danzo

  2. #42
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    I don't really hate Sakura or her deceitful "confession." It was a mistake on her part, and definitely underestimated Naruto and took his acceptance for granted, but the whole point of the confession was to try and save his life and free him from all the other promises of his that she took for granted.

    Naruto was definitely heading towards becoming a martyr for all these enormous ideals, on top of the task of "saving" Sasuke... even when Naruto finally gave Sasuke his answer, he left us with the enigmatic phrase "we're both gonna die", and he's hinted at that a bit since. I know Naruto has stuck to his "dream" of becoming Hokage, but a lot of his actions have made me think he actually intends to die somehow... like when he first won the Tug-of-War for Kurama's chakra, he said something to the effect of, "I won't hurt you, Kyuubi... so just bear it for a little longer." I don't know if, at the time, he could have expected he'd make friends with Kurama.

    I think it's a huge message over the last few chapters when Naruto realizes that his life is not his own to throw away, and that he's truly tied to so many people. It really drives it home that he needs to fight to survive for his own life, not merely because he's a Jinchuuriki who's needed for the enemy's plans. Sakura tried to save him, in her own way, back with her confession, but it was Hinata who managed to reach him. Just realize that there was a point at which Sakura was the one who understood the forces targeting Naruto's life, the extent to which he'd risk himself, and the reasons for Naruto's actions. It gave her a huge one-up on Hinata. Now, after the Pain attack on the village and the entire war fought to protect Naruto (where Sakura has LONG since been written out of the plot and removed from Naruto's storylines), it's Hinata who steps in and finally gives him the words of wisdom to free him, but once again Hinata is given the key opportunities.

    The major credit to Hinata is that she actually seizes these opportunities without hesitation and makes a decision to do whatever she has to to save Naruto; for her, it's not even a decision, because she loves him. In the Pain fight, Sakura was healing people and doing her best, but she'd have sat by and let Naruto be captured, and Hinata was the one who defied rationality and went to him.

    It seems apparent that unless Hinata dies, it's a NaruHina ending. Sakura seems to have made up her mind that she just can't set aside her love for Sasuke, and whenever he's redeemed she'll probably be there for him.

    I blame the inconsistencies with Kishi's lack of devoting precious manga panels and plot devices towards Sakura's character for the last 200 chapters. He's basically written her out of the manga after giving her such a strong role at the start of Part 2. I really liked her character at that point, and if she'd actually gained power to fill Tsunade's shoes (as was predicted countless times), she'd have still been able to hold her own.

    Sakura's feelings for Sasuke should have been dealt with after their first meeting with him back around chapter 300; instead, Kishi focused dealt with Naruto's feelings of inadequacy through Rasenshuriken training. If that's not representative of the exact treatment Sakura has gotten since, I don't know what is. Up the power scaling, give all the power-ups to Naruto, and ignore character development for the rest of the cast. Even a two-chapter "moping" sequence similar to what Naruto received after Jiraiya died would have worked to sort out Sakura's feelings believably; it could have taken place alongside Naruto's Rasenshuriken training. I feel like Shikamaru's story arc with Hidan/Kakuzu was a few pages too long anyway.

  3. #43
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    One thing I'm a little curious about is the sharingan's apparent lack of purpose in the presence if kyubi. We learned that the sharingan's secret purpose was exclusive to controlling the 9 tailed fox. Kyubi has made little mention of kakashi's eye being the same of the pair as the one that attacked at naruto's birth! I find it hard to believe the kyubi didn't notice the entire time naruto was assigned to kakashi's team! Danzo proved sharingan's retain the signature of its natural owner, therefore always having a match to its pair.

    Maybe the kyubi just didn't care and wanted everyone dead or to experience their own destructive devices.

    Anyway, i was surprised that not one special and unforeseen result has occurred with kakashi's eye and kyubi's chakra. It's like sharingan has nothing to do with kyubi after all :/ no failsafe or hidden traps, no crazy reactions :0

    So much for the uchiha secret tablet having anything awesome to say about beasts, history, or doujutsus.

    Opportunity missed imo
    _____
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  4. #44
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Spoiler!
    Given all the eye-stealing/-swapping that's gone on involving the Sharingan, what impact would it have if the Kyuubi had mentioned that the guy who controlled him had the same Sharingan as Kakashi? Adding that the eye was the same as Kakashi's would have been irrelevant. It doesn't help anyone to know that.

    What I don't understand is why you would think there would be all kinds of special things going on with the Kyuubi and the Sharingan when that's never been the case ever for any Sharingan user that's encountered the Kyuubi (Kakashi, Madara, Sasuke).

  5. #45
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    @ Knife eater,

    The Biggest Sharingan mystery has to be that of the Juubi as its source. Spiritual powers are those of imagination, the realm of the mind, things that have no physical form but are as relevant to existence as material objects. For me the Juubi with a Sharingan is Pathetically Pointless. Instead, the Juubi should have had a Rinnegan, then it could fill the Progenitor/Creator Role much much better. The author of the Manga needs to explain things like the source of Amaterasu and other sharingan mysteries.

    A juubi with the Shaingan and lacking a coherent mind is only capable of imagining random objects of chaos. Such chaos is fine in a preternatural sense, but any object materialized by the Sharingan should vanish into nothingness eventually when the Sharingan owner stops thinking about the object. A rinnegan is needed in order to infuse the imagined object with the Power of Existence ("Life force").

    As for Kurama ignoring Kakashi's eye and its Chakra similarity to Tobi's, I think we can safely assume that the 9Tails was so consumed with Rage and Hatred to where he could not give a damn.

    Now speaking of the Juubi once again, Can the Juubi die? or Can the Juubi's body be destroyed thereby killing it? I can see where the Beasts made from its chakra are immortal since they have no original physical form, and the same is probably true for the Juubi, or for its spirit or its chakra, but if Madara is afraid to release a point blank Juubi BB, for fear of damaging the Juubi, then itis at least thinkable that something that can sustain physical injury/wounds is also possible to kill.


    @Rlinfamous,

    I no longer despise Sakura like I used to when she used to be so full of herself and used to talk down to Naruto, even though Naruto was frequently a Jerk. Sakura still has a shot at Sasuke although she now has competition for him from Karin.

    LOL, I guess if Sasuke goes for Karin, she still has Rock Lee...heh! heh!

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #46
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Now speaking of the Juubi once again, Can the Juubi die? or Can the Juubi's body be destroyed thereby killing it? I can see where the Beasts made from its chakra are immortal since they have no original physical form, and the same is probably true for the Juubi, or for its spirit or its chakra, but if Madara is afraid to release a point blank Juubi BB, for fear of damaging the Juubi, then itis at least thinkable that something that can sustain physical injury/wounds is also possible to kill.
    It can't be killed. Permanently, that is (though I suppose that might change after this battle is said and done). It's in the same boat with the other Bijuu, it would resurrect eventually after some undetermined amount of time. The Rikudou Sennin did seal it within himself, then split it up before he died for that very reason, after all: The thought of the Juubi coming back without a host when he died. If he could have killed it off permanently once and for all, he more than likely would have.

  7. #47
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    I can understand the pinch kishi would be in if he explored the obvious that the kyubi was controlled by one sharingan in what can be considered one of his most significant moments of his life (the kyubi's) but has f*** all to say about the matching eye in leader of the boy's team he is sealed in. 4 years before any change of heart and retaining the old personality of revenge thirsty demon of destruction .. for story telling purposes exploring it produces obstacles but to say it is irrelevant is missing the point, especially when he had a definite opinion on the nature of sasuke's chakra! Nothing to say about the sharingan that ripped him from kushina?

    Im under the impression that the uchiha stone tablet explains that the sharingan exists with an express purpose related to the 9 tailed fox. As if so6p custom made the sharingan to be the reigns of the fox but there has been no interplay at that angle or nod to the fact the manga ever said that. Even a curious side effect when the kyubi went to heal kakashi would have been a fitting piece of intrigue to satisfy what was already established. This isn't in need of total kishi level "correction" or retcon but the whole affair unfolding has had some awesome moments but many more cheap disappointments.

    Im not sure what auto correct did to my previous message but i didn't mean to make mention of the juubi or beg the origin and transference of rinnegan. I meant strictly the tablet revealing the true purpose of sharingan, something easily identified as being a doujutsu, a purpose and a tailed beast (regarding purpose) all being created and tuned fir the world by so6p.

    For the record, i wasn't asking for "all kinds" of things to be going on between the sharingan and fox but to be Frank, i am disappointed nothing at all is occurring, nothing at all small or large to acknowledge the fact that they were once explained to be linked and in such a way intentionally exclusive to the uchiha. Once again kishi teased something important or possibly an angle to add depth or mood to the story then forgets it was ever said.

    Right, eye swapping doesn't apply to kyubi's situation with these particular eyes and the fact kyubi has been in vicinity of kakashi before naruto was born yet after kakashi had the eye. Kyubi was around to connect some very damning dots but didn't use it even once to challenge or goad naruto when kakashi became captain. The circumstances are so fixed and removed from the typical eye swapping we saw post uchiha massacre and even before, it has no bearing on what is possible for the kyubi to know and what would have been likely for his character. Kakashi and obito had their sharingan eyes the same length of the majority of their lives except for a few hours longer in obito's case. No swapping afterwards, kyubi wasn't so privy to the swap fests but kakashi, minato, tobi, all encountered or operated in relative closeness to the fox, fox isn't stupid. I can't believe he wouldn't screw with naruto by failing to implicate kakashi or his eye in bad stuff to try and Fu** with naruto.
    Last edited by knife eater; 12-29-2012 at 07:43 AM.
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  8. #48
    Senior Member Nano's Avatar
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    Rlin: Dont forget that Sakura's master Tsunade has been alive this whole time, she has been living the her shadow the entire time. Naruto and Sasuke did not really begin to shine until their respective masters were dealt with. Its not like she has had call to summon Katsu on very many occasions and show her worth. Every time she was needed to do that Tsunade has fullfilled the role. Sakura is about to get her day as Tsunade will die, but it will be in a reduced capacity as there is simply too much going on to give her much screentime and keep it relevent.
    Quote Originally Posted by [JUiCE] View Post
    The virginity is strong in this one.

  9. #49
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I can understand the pinch kishi would be in if he explored the obvious that the kyubi was controlled by one sharingan in what can be considered one of his most significant moments of his life (the kyubi's) but has f*** all to say about the matching eye in leader of the boy's team he is sealed in. 4 years before any change of heart and retaining the old personality of revenge thirsty demon of destruction .. for story telling purposes exploring it produces obstacles but to say it is irrelevant is missing the point, especially when he had a definite opinion on the nature of sasuke's chakra! Nothing to say about the sharingan that ripped him from kushina?

    Im under the impression that the uchiha stone tablet explains that the sharingan exists with an express purpose related to the 9 tailed fox. As if so6p custom made the sharingan to be the reigns of the fox but there has been no interplay at that angle or nod to the fact the manga ever said that. Even a curious side effect when the kyubi went to heal kakashi would have been a fitting piece of intrigue to satisfy what was already established. This isn't in need of total kishi level "correction" or retcon but the whole affair unfolding has had some awesome moments but many more cheap disappointments.

    Im not sure what auto correct did to my previous message but i didn't mean to make mention of the juubi or beg the origin and transference of rinnegan. I meant strictly the tablet revealing the true purpose of sharingan, something easily identified as being a doujutsu, a purpose and a tailed beast (regarding purpose) all being created and tuned fir the world by so6p.

    For the record, i wasn't asking for "all kinds" of things to be going on between the sharingan and fox but to be Frank, i am disappointed nothing at all is occurring, nothing at all small or large to acknowledge the fact that they were once explained to be linked and in such a way intentionally exclusive to the uchiha. Once again kishi teased something important or possibly an angle to add depth or mood to the story then forgets it was ever said.

    Right, eye swapping doesn't apply to kyubi's situation with these particular eyes and the fact kyubi has been in vicinity of kakashi before naruto was born yet after kakashi had the eye. Kyubi was around to connect some very damning dots but didn't use it even once to challenge or goad naruto when kakashi became captain. The circumstances are so fixed and removed from the typical eye swapping we saw post uchiha massacre and even before, it has no bearing on what is possible for the kyubi to know and what would have been likely for his character. Kakashi and obito had their sharingan eyes the same length of the majority of their lives except for a few hours longer in obito's case. No swapping afterwards, kyubi wasn't so privy to the swap fests but kakashi, minato, tobi, all encountered or operated in relative closeness to the fox, fox isn't stupid. I can't believe he wouldn't screw with naruto by failing to implicate kakashi or his eye in bad stuff to try and Fu** with naruto.
    Well, the Uchiha clan definitely has a history of controlling the Kyuubi at this point. I thought that the hideout (near the chair that Itachi sat in just before fighting Sasuke) had the word "Kyuubi" written on it? Perhaps I'm remembering it wrong, but I thought one of the translations had that.

    Spoiler!


    Anyway, I guess I never really considered the Mangekyou to only be able to control the Kyuubi. There's just no reason they'd be linked in that manner; the other Bijuu should be controllable with the Mangekyou; it's *possible* that the other Bijuu could be controlled with regular Sharingan, making the Kyuubi somewhat unique, but I don't think just any random Uchiha could control a Bijuu. It's possible that the Uchiha, in their tablet, held that controlling the strongest Bijuu, the Kyuubi, was the right of their clan, who possessed the greatest Doujutsu and strongest chakra. If the purpose of the tablet is to explain the Uchiha relations to the SO6P and the evolution of the Sharingan, then surely it discusses the connection between their SO6P legacy (Sharingan) and the greatest legacy he left behind, the Bijuu. The Mangekyou is the strongest Sharingan, the Kyuubi is the strongest Bijuu, and an Uchiha who could control both would be the strongest possible Sharingan-user, and as close as possible to the SO6P. The only way to surpass that would be to gain Senju cells, which enable the Rinnegan, Yin/Yang Jutsu, and Jinchuuriki potential.

    I know I'm stating a lot of really obvious stuff, but the point I'm getting at is that the only outstanding quality of the Kyuubi is that it's the strongest; I don't think there's anything particularly unique about its relation to the Mangekyou. From Sasuke's standpoint, the Kyuubi is the only Bijuu he or any Uchiha would be particularly concerned with, and the only Bijuu we really thought much about at that point in the manga. The other Bijuu/Jinchuuriki only existed to demonstrate Akatsuki's progress in its mission, letting us know the threat they posed to Naruto was real. If Sasuke were to discuss the tablet at length now (which is a distinct possibility, as I imagine he's going to re-visit the tablet at some point with Orochimaru), I wouldn't be surprised if Kishi had Sasuke rephrase "The Mangekyou allows one to control Bijuu."

    As for why the Kyuubi recognized Obito with the vague "You!...", that was probably just another one of Kishi's dirty tricks to throw us off. Kishi has done quite a bit of that; for now, I'm just going with the idea that the Kyuubi isn't all that gifted at sensing chakra signatures (quite a few Shinobi are capable of stating whether chakra feels "Cold" or "Sinister"), and simply assumed only Madara was capable of controlling him with the Sharingan. It was basically a "Not again!!" type moment for Kurama.

    Kishi has a lot of work to do covering his ass with regards to Obito's "Madara Complex"... sure, I get where he'd say things like "I was the one who gave the Rinnegan to Nagato", considering that was a major feat linking Madara to the Akatsuki. However, caring about things like the Uchiha/Senju rivalry doesn't match up with Obito's current character, and we've still never gotten his motivation for wiping out the Uchiha Clan (which seems like something Madara would do out of spite, but still goes against the anti-Senju, pro-Uchiha sentiments). We don't even really know why Obito collected so many Sharingan, unless some big plan of his is later revealed. I wonder if Sasuke will tap into that resource somehow if he inherits Obito/Madara's resources once the pair are defeated, assuming Sasuke becomes the End Villain.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    @ Knife eater,

    The Biggest Sharingan mystery has to be that of the Juubi as its source. Spiritual powers are those of imagination, the realm of the mind, things that have no physical form but are as relevant to existence as material objects. For me the Juubi with a Sharingan is Pathetically Pointless. Instead, the Juubi should have had a Rinnegan, then it could fill the Progenitor/Creator Role much much better. The author of the Manga needs to explain things like the source of Amaterasu and other sharingan mysteries.

    A juubi with the Shaingan and lacking a coherent mind is only capable of imagining random objects of chaos. Such chaos is fine in a preternatural sense, but any object materialized by the Sharingan should vanish into nothingness eventually when the Sharingan owner stops thinking about the object. A rinnegan is needed in order to infuse the imagined object with the Power of Existence ("Life force").

    As for Kurama ignoring Kakashi's eye and its Chakra similarity to Tobi's, I think we can safely assume that the 9Tails was so consumed with Rage and Hatred to where he could not give a damn.

    Now speaking of the Juubi once again, Can the Juubi die? or Can the Juubi's body be destroyed thereby killing it? I can see where the Beasts made from its chakra are immortal since they have no original physical form, and the same is probably true for the Juubi, or for its spirit or its chakra, but if Madara is afraid to release a point blank Juubi BB, for fear of damaging the Juubi, then itis at least thinkable that something that can sustain physical injury/wounds is also possible to kill.
    I disagree paulbee, if we were to compare the juubi to our world (from a religious standpoint) i think he's the closest to being god. Except i don't like that comparison, especially since we are yet to learn what kind of counsciousnes it posess, or if at all. But, from a scientific point of view, i like to think of the juubi as a Big Bang of narutoverse. It is the begining of everything, the source of all energy, and even matter.

    Ofcourse i could be wrong, but the idea that every living being, even plant's and the tiniest of bugs, or single cell organisms, ALL come from the juubi, is really apealing to me. Hence they all possess the same chakras as the juubi, which the humas simply started calling "natural" chakra, sometime later.

    Yes humas can, (thanks to SO6P in large part) employ the use of their own chakras, but aside of being the source of knowledge, he seems to be the source of the eye powers aswell, or at least the most prominent one's. Which in turn leads me to think, that all eye powers and baics for chakra use were originally somehow copied by the SO6P from the juubi. it's like the SO6P observed the powers of the juubi, and understood them, and became able to use his own powers in a similar fashion. But it wasn't until he managed to seal the juubi that he could tap in to it's powers, and do all the crazy stuff he did. Including teaching people how to use chakra.

    I think that the eye juubi has, is the ultimate form of doujutsu. you can progress to sharingan, if you have the blood of one of SO6P sons in you. and you can even unlock the rinnegan if you have the blood of both sons in you. (meaning you have the full SO6P's blood) but you cannot progess any further, because the SO6P never managed to steal the full eyepower of the juubi. Which is the Sharingan and Rinnegan combined (likely posesing all the powers of the "lower" versions and also new powers).

    If that theory were to be true, it would mean that the juubi is dangerous to living beings simply, because it's an existance so powerful, that it destroys the life (and creates it) almost by accident, by simply sitting in place or doing random things. It doesn't have a higher cause, it's just a mass of energy and thought. Hence the SO6P's plan to divide it in to smaller, less dangerous being's that also have more deifined personalities (becasue they are now seperate, while in the juubi they intermingle and cancel each other out).

    Food for thought, as they say.

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