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  1. #51
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    a....Is it necessary to be Jinchuuriki to do the EOM Plan, can the Juubi's power be used in some other way without being Jinchuuriki?

    b....Can Obito resurrect Madara who has been for 17 years without having to use the Juubi's power? I suppose Mokuton is enough?

    c....Can Rinnetensei also restore Madara to his Youth once he's revived?

    d.....If Madra returns, then Obito would have died from using Rinne Tensei,(Unless the comment by Obito is false). How will Madara guarantee that he'll follow through with the Eye of The Moon Plan if Obito dies before it happens?

    e.....What can Madara do if Obito refuses to die for him?

    f......Is Time running out on Madara and Obito? The Juubi is becoming harder to control and it's gonna get worse. If the Juubi reaches full maturity and can no longer be controlled, then Obito will not have his EOM plan, and Madara will be stuck as an ET.

    g......Can Naruto connect to the Mind of the Juubi (Jinchuuriki style)?
    A. I believe it IS necessary to be the Jinchuuriki, yes. Madara has already stated that, without becoming the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, it would be impossible to control the Juubi's power. In short, it's either control ALL of its power, or control none. They cannot stop the Juubi from transforming or breaking their control.

    B. I suppose if you want to get technical it could be that, just like Jiraiya, Madara's life is incredibly difficult to revive due to the length of time he's been gone (which is far longer than Jiraiya had been dead). I don't think Obito will need a significant portion of the Juubi's strength, though... even if he were to withdraw ten times his personal chakra from the Juubi's stores, it would be a drop in the ocean compared to the power the Juubi's been throwing around.

    C. That's the million-dollar question; my guess is not really. At the very least, Madara would have lost the "improvements" granted by Orochimaru's tampering with the Edo Tensei; based on what we've been shown, these essentially amount to a greater share of Hashirama's power (= Youth / Power over Rinnegan+Juubi, perhaps?). Basically, Madara SHOULD be revived in a lesser state. Worst case scenario, he's a feeble old man. Best case scenario, he's his old self, with lesser mastery of Mokuton.

    D. Assuming Madara can become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki (which he always intended to be a one-person job), I see no reason why he could not follow through with the Moon's Eye Plan. There's no version of the plan that we're aware of which requires more than one Uchiha alive to carry it out. Madara only needed Obito to carry on his plans while he himself was dead. And either one of them is capable of performing the Mugen Tsukuyomi technique, since Madara showed Obito how.

    E. I'm not really sure, though I'm guessing Madara has an ace up his sleeve. Maybe he'll just kill Obito out of spite and let the Juubi rampage (since Madara is the only one the Juubi cannot kill). At this point I'm willing to believe just about anything when it comes to Madara; he could use Creation of All Things (Rinnegan Izanagi...) to make himself a new body, then use some forbidden Soul Transfer technique (like Orochimaru's) to put himself in that body. Who knows. It wouldn't be that different from how he created the Zetsu and transplanted his Will into them, only he'd have gone all the way. It's pretty similar to some of our "Tobi = Advanced Zetsu Clone" theories from the days before the Obito revelation. The only issue that raises is, if Madara could do this all along, why did he bother brainwashing Obito? Why not just ditch his ageing body from the start?

    F. I think Obito and Madara are looking for a way to one-up the other before the Juubi reaches that stage, or are both intended to use that stage to their personal advantage. Perhaps Obito is hoping for an opening to trap Madara in his Kamui dimension for long enough to become the Juubi Jinchuuriki and perform the technique on his own. Perhaps he hopes to in some way botch the Rinne Tensei (maybe use Human Realm to remove Madara's chakra/soul from the Edo Tensei body once Madara drops his guard). We're dealing with people who are at least aware of how to gain power over creation itself; it's possible either of them could use the incomplete Mugen Tsukuyomi, and drag the Juubi into it in the same way Obito was dragged into Madara's when it was first revealed. Perhaps if the Juubi is IN the Mugen Tsukuyomi, it can be made easier to control according to their Will, because its own power is less of a factor, and its mind would be cut off from reality and all that natural energy.

    G. I think Naruto will definitely either connect with the Juubi's mind Jinchuuriki Style, or else will GIVE it a mind using the fragments given to him by all the Bijuu; I think he was given part of their individual personalities, which he could assemble into a whole and thus give the Juubi the power to resist Madara's/Obito's control.
    Last edited by Rlinfamous; 12-20-2012 at 07:02 AM.

  2. #52
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    RIP to Konoha's finest:( First Tsunade, then Shikaku and Inochi, now neji???? The leaf's senior leadership is being decimated. Damn,

  3. #53
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    @paulbee @rlinfamous

    The state at which madara would return to if obito were to revive him with rennei tensei is still a more interesting question than i originally gave it credit. We once assumed that the empty hashirama body in tobi's hideout / mazou chamber would serve as the vessel for madara as would allow his entire spiritual powers drive the fullness if the physical abilities within hashirama 's body. This, if indeed was the original plan, would be a more pure or totally pure union of the sons of six paths. Atm, as impressive as madara is he is still just a spliced piece of merchandise and the physical state of his body whether it be mostly original madara body, edo tensei corpse body, or even the partial hashirama attachments .. none ate suitable for sealing the juubi into.

    It makes perfect sense to me now that hashirama's entire and pure body is absolutely the only body capable of properly containing and retaining the sealed juubi. The mokuton inherent to his body is a perfect physical reinforcement of whatever sealing tech is used to place juubi in him. The empty hashirama body was associated with the purposes of the mazou as well as white zetsu cloning but those don't necessarily rule out the purpose of that hashirama body being the vehicle of madara's soul once rinnei tensei brings him back. The logistics after being revived are a separate discussion but who is to say rinnei tensei can't bypass a few steps and revive madara straight into the hashirama body?

    As for why madara did not just switch to a body while he was old... again, it boils down to what is suitible. The rinnegan has specific requirements and demands, that limits the number of viable bodies to use. It's been said that madara's was the most special among the uchiha, that could only get him so far, though. I believe that whatever he was doing with the mazou.. it could only be done with madara's (and hashirama's) powers and cells. Madara would be required to remain in his natural body depending (theorizing here BTW). As for transferring his soul using rinnegan izanagi, we don't know if that's how it can work and also, it requires hashirama's component to be used correctly and as we know, madara had some complications with implementing hashirama's powers and he awoke rinnegan in a manner and timeframe contrary to what he believed would happen. Him being so old when he got it may have been the exact reason he could not use ultimate techniques. It plays out almost like a crude catch-22 he needs a new body in order to use ultimate techniques but he needs to use ultimate techniques to get a new body.

    ..

    Madara has done a great deal of cultivation with the mazou's powers, degree of strength upon being revived becomes a non issue when the mazou he fed to and fed from is taken into consideration.

    Those are my thoughts anyway. Im beginning to think obito and especially sasuke cannot successfully endure being the juubi's jinchuuriki as they ate now.
    Last edited by knife eater; 12-20-2012 at 03:18 PM.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  4. #54
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    @paulbee @rlinfamous

    The state at which madara would return to if obito were to revive him with rennei tensei is still a more interesting question than i originally gave it credit. We once assumed that the empty hashirama body in tobi's hideout / mazou chamber would serve as the vessel for madara as would allow his entire spiritual powers drive the fullness if the physical abilities within hashirama 's body. This, if indeed was the original plan, would be a more pure or totally pure union of the sons of six paths. Atm, as impressive as madara is he is still just a spliced piece of merchandise and the physical state of his body whether it be mostly original madara body, edo tensei corpse body, or even the partial hashirama attachments .. none ate suitable for sealing the juubi into.

    It makes perfect sense to me now that hashirama's entire and pure body is absolutely the only body capable of properly containing and retaining the sealed juubi. The mokuton inherent to his body is a perfect physical reinforcement of whatever sealing tech is used to place juubi in him. The empty hashirama body was associated with the purposes of the mazou as well as white zetsu cloning but those don't necessarily rule out the purpose of that hashirama body being the vehicle of madara's soul once rinnei tensei brings him back. The logistics after being revived are a separate discussion but who is to say rinnei tensei can't bypass a few steps and revive madara straight into the hashirama body?

    As for why madara did not just switch to a body while he was old... again, it boils down to what is suitible. The rinnegan has specific requirements and demands, that limits the number of viable bodies to use. It's been said that madara's was the most special among the uchiha, that could only get him so far, though. I believe that whatever he was doing with the mazou.. it could only be done with madara's (and hashirama's) powers and cells. Madara would be required to remain in his natural body depending (theorizing here BTW). As for transferring his soul using rinnegan izanagi, we don't know if that's how it can work and also, it requires hashirama's component to be used correctly and as we know, madara had some complications with implementing hashirama's powers and he awoke rinnegan in a manner and timeframe contrary to what he believed would happen. Him being so old when he got it may have been the exact reason he could not use ultimate techniques. It plays out almost like a crude catch-22 he needs a new body in order to use ultimate techniques but he needs to use ultimate techniques to get a new body.

    ..

    Madara has done a great deal of cultivation with the mazou's powers, degree of strength upon being revived becomes a non issue when the mazou he fed to and fed from is taken into consideration.

    Those are my thoughts anyway. Im beginning to think obito and especially sasuke cannot successfully endure being the juubi's jinchuuriki as they ate now.
    I like that explanation! And agreed, Sasuke definitely couldn't become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki. As you've implied, Obito is more of a wild card, simply because he is literally half Hashirama and has some pretty legit stamina feats under his belt (spamming Mangekyou literally non-stop, controlling multiple Bijuu + Gedo Mazou, etc).

  5. #55
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    the death of Neji comes as a surprise and which shocks me a lot! R.I.P

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  7. #57
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinatinaww View Post
    I just can't believe Kishi kills Neji! he is one of my fav characters T^T
    Well, the hyuga were the most represented clan in the manga as far ad konaha shinobi are concerned. Hinata, hinata's father, and neji all had visible profiles and scattered roles. Not only did they all have face time (hinata's father, i admit, was extremely short appearances) they all were completely interchangeable and mostly identical in abilities, the only differences being age, intelligence, and capacity for fighting skill. Neji was the safest choice and i suspect his confinement to inconsequential and minor roles was planned well in advanced to to allow his casualty without the shock of losing a more beloved and featured character. With his death we still possess the fullness of hyuga in the remaining members like hinata, no special techniques or knowledge are lost, only his personality.

    If i were to make an educated guess, i would say that neji and ten ten were conditioned even before the time skip to eventually be killed. Ten ten is a safe death and no impact on reader attachments; neji, however struck the perfect balance of reader attachment engaged in the tragedy. I predict most, if not all of the former rookie teams will lose a teammate. Maybe not ten ten since neji is gone but shino fits the same bill as neji. Choji and ino would be downright shocking (kishi better be careful) but shikinaru has asuma's kid to help take care of on top of losing his dad.

    Also, i can't say for sure if the 3 from HQ actually died. I think they were saved and exploited a chance to be concealed. There were two teleportation options which passed through HQ and by a miracle one of those options became available deus ex machina style.

    More far fetched but still possible is kakashi implementing a new trick from kamui to warp there then warp them out. Might take shoehorning the explanation but there is always a way. Such a dupe in allowing the belief that they died to stick is genius worthy of shikimaru's dad and a great piece of irony if it fools madara who did the exact same thing generations ago. I don't think kishi would linger for so long in the war without killing known characters but then disposing of 4 known characters in back to back chapters. Neji is plenty.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  8. #58
    Senior Member Yondaime123's Avatar
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    All of you people, don't worry. Everybody that died in the war will be revived with the Jyuubi's chakra.

  9. #59
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yondaime123 View Post
    All of you people, don't worry. Everybody that died in the war will be revived with the Jyuubi's chakra.
    I suspected Naruto might have the capacity to bring people back from the dead with his powerful chakra that can even effect Mokutan.

    However I'm hoping the dead stay dead as much as I like Neji his death has more meaning if he stays dead. I figured Juugo might die as well but they are nowhere near the battlefield.


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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinatinaww View Post
    I just can't believe Kishi kills Neji! he is one of my fav characters T^T
    Jiraiya was waay worse. He was hands down the best Naruto character...dead..
    Deidara second best...dead...twice...
    Orochimaru third...dead...alive...dead...alive...dead...alive ...?
    Shikamaru is should be nervous, though since his dad died(maybe. My theory is a Naruto shadow clone saved them or something)
    Neji fifth...dead...

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