Naruto 613 Discussion / 614 Predictions

[knife eater]

Lets be clear the Sage of th 6 paths was born with the Rinnegan but here is the kicker .....



According to Kuurama(9tails) the Jyuubi created humans thus the is source of the Rinnegan & all other blood limits is the Jyuubi itself. Essentially a human born with the Rinnegan is a human incarnate of the Jyuubi. I mentioned this in my thread a few months ago.

I thought the fox went as far as saying the juubi made the land and gave it chakras, i don't recall humans being an express article of the conversation, i also have a bad memory. Either way, it doesn't lock the juubi as the only source of powers and such available to humans. Dead demon seal is hint if that and the juubi isn't the only figure of the divine order or interpretation of Pantheon.

[POW]

Of course the Jyuubi is just the creator of humanity but like in many mythologies there are other gods that exist as well.

It was literally stated as the progenitor of all that exists in this world hence the name of the chapter "Progenitor"

- Also notice the explosions have the same shape as the ones from the current chapter...so those Tear/Egg shaped Bijuu bombs are the norm.

[paulbee]

@POW and Knife eater,

The Manga does call the 10 Tails the Progenitor of all that exists in the world.(see http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/594/15)

If this were literally true then POW is correct. However, Kishi has been throwing "facts" and assertions around lately, and it is difficult to ascertain if what Kurama said can be interpreted as The Juubi geing a "Parent" to humans and other living things.

What troubles me is that the ripple pattern in the Juubi's eye could in fact be a Rinnegan. If it is, then it might mean that SO6P got his Rinnegan

a) By being born that way ( inheriting it from the Juubi meaning that other humans could do the same eventually)
b) Somehow seizing it from the Juubi and making it his own.


THEORY TIME:

If the Gin-Kin Brothers ate Kurama's meat after he swallowed them, and if doing so gave them Kurama's chakra and powers, and if The Bothers are descended from the SO6P and got their ability to survive eating Kurama's flesh without dieing from the SO6P's genes, Could it be then that the SO6p got swallowed by the Juubi, ate the Juubi's flesh, and absorbed its power?




EDIT: SEEMS you posted the same page I referenced while I was typing, POW.

[POW]

No it's as I was telling you he was born with that power because he like all other humans are descended from the Jyuubi.

Zetsu is what you could consider a super human who does not eat, drink or use the toilet. The reason why is because he is a first generation human born from the flesh of the Jyuubi and Hashirama's DNA. He was even considered to have potential greater capacity for intelligence that most humans according to Madara.

- There are parallels to this and a show I have mentioned several times called Neon Genesis Evangelion. In that story too humanity was born from a super being progenitor known as Lilith. All living things from microscopic organisms to human life including their souls came from Lilith. There was even artificial humans created directly from Lilith known as Rei who where essential to the overall end goals similar to Zetsu.

- The same thing that happened in a game called Xenogears with a super being called Dues creating humanity.

- Bottom line is human beings are descended from the Jyuubi so all their abilities and such evolved from that point forward. Thus logically we can assume if the Jyuubi had a dojutsu eye that any humans who evolved a dojutsu eye are expressing an advancement mimicking the Jyuubi's on a human level.

- It's possible the Jyuubi didn't so much create humans in their current form but created the process that lead to their evolution. So maybe it spawned simple organism that grew more complex over time and became the plants , animals and humans that now exist.

Thus the title progenitor fits. Kuurama has no reason to lie and he was part of the Jyuubi so he would definitely know.

[paulbee]

As you can see from my option A) Above, I am not discounting the idea of SO6p being born that way, However I am somewhat uncomfortable with the idea for the reason that Only He (SO6P) has ever had a rinnegan. No one else, not even his descendants have ever spontaneously popped a rinnegan from birth.

This does not rule out the theory, I agree. It just makes me sufficiently uncomfortable with it to make me seek other equally probable options.


(I haven't read Neon Genesis Evangelion, but I surely will now)

[POW]

It's an extremely rare ability of course there wouldn't be tons of people with it because it represents the pinnacle of human evolution at this time. The Sage of the 6 paths parents must have also had unique genetic abilities that they may not have even know they had. At that point in time people did not use advanced chakra manipulation so they could carry the genes and not know exactly what potential they had.

It wasn't some divine miracle that he was born with the Rinnegan it was his genetic lineage.

[knife eater]

Good stuff, thanks for the references. It certainly does lean in your favor, I've watched Eva 3 times but i think that was too many years ago :0

So what was the leading opinion explaining the missing tomoe within this juubi's eye? We began at six, juubi advanced to a new stage, still at 6 tomoe ya? Is that reflecting his incomplete form ? (Why not start at 3 tomoe? Too obvious? ) does it reflect something from madara and obito?

What is madara missing that makes his rinnegan barely able to play its role controling an incomplete juubi whereas the so6p could subdue the juubi in proper form? You have 150% rinnegan fortified with bonus hashirama starting to break before the final stage, was it the sages crazy tools? His sage arts? His sealing tech? I thought madara would be having an easier time here buy instead he seems to have understood and accounted for some shortcomings that point out it's way more than a case of rinnegan controlling the juubi..

[Zero]

As you can see from my option A) Above, I am not discounting the idea of SO6p being born that way, However I am somewhat uncomfortable with the idea for the reason that Only He (SO6P) has ever had a rinnegan. No one else, not even his descendants have ever spontaneously popped a rinnegan from birth.

This does not rule out the theory, I agree. It just makes me sufficiently uncomfortable with it to make me seek other equally probable options.


(I haven't read Neon Genesis Evangelion, but I surely will now)

Well, evolution occurs only when there is a need for it. It's basically gaining traits essential to survival. You could say that So6p's descendants didn't need the Rinnegan to survive in the world, since the super being called Jyubi was no longer there. On the other hand, it was thanks to So6p's Rinnegan that not only he survived, but the whole humanity up to this point could exist without fearing it's most supreme predator to this (Naruto) day, which is their source of existence anyway (ah those circles ). It's like with the autonomous system loosing it's capabilities if you live too long in a sterile environment, without germs and the like (this might be a great problem in a far away future).

This might explain why none of the So6p's descendants have been born with a Rinnegan spontaneously, unless we assume that not even once, have the bloodline been reunited, then they simply didn't have the right genes to obtain it.

Still, evolution is a very slow process, it doesn't normally occur at such radical speeds, which suggests that there was already a good groundwork of genes from which a Rinnegan could have been born, or a mutation have appeared, which turned out to be a great thing (rarely happens). There even are people who considers evolution as just a simple set of beneficial mutations. It is possible that an interaction which Jyubi might have caused the mutation (like eating it flesh and the like).

There is a certain type of energy (in narutoverse) that creates great changes to the human body, called Natural Energy. We have already seen it's effects varying from turning to stone, frog, reshaping your eye pupils to allowing you to freely morph your body the way you like.


BTW.: NEO GEO EVA is certainly a great series, which they are currently rebooting in the form of movies. I have to say that they are great, but a little less twisted I guess , for now that is .

[knife eater]

Well, evolution occurs only when there is a need for it. It's basically gaining traits essential to survival. You could say that So6p's descendants didn't need the Rinnegan to survive in the world, since the super being called Jyubi was no longer there. On the other hand, it was thanks to So6p's Rinnegan that not only he survived, but the whole humanity up to this point could exist without fearing it's most supreme predator to this (Naruto) day, which is their source of existence anyway (ah those circles ). It's like with the autonomous system loosing it's capabilities if you live too long in a sterile environment, without germs and the like (this might be a great problem in a far away future).

This might explain why none of the So6p's descendants have been born with a Rinnegan spontaneously, unless we assume that not even once, have the bloodline been reunited, then they simply didn't have the right genes to obtain it.

Still, evolution is a very slow process, it doesn't normally occur at such radical speeds, which suggests that there was already a good groundwork of genes from which a Rinnegan could have been born, or a mutation have appeared, which turned out to be a great thing (rarely happens). There even are people who considers evolution as just a simple set of beneficial mutations. It is possible that an interaction which Jyubi might have caused the mutation (like eating it flesh and the like).

There is a certain type of energy (in narutoverse) that creates great changes to the human body, called Natural Energy. We have already seen it's effects varying from turning to stone, frog, reshaping your eye pupils to allowing you to freely morph your body the way you like.


BTW.: NEO GEO EVA is certainly a great series, which they are currently rebooting in the form of movies. I have to say that they are great, but a little less twisted I guess , for now that is .

Absorb natural energy, it's just like absorbing the juubi, only safer (whoops, forgot about turning into a frog). I get it now. So6p absorbed the juubi's energy and because he wasn't covered in special bijuu snot, or flogged from the magic rod, he began to turn into a juubi himself.

[paulbee]

@zero,

I bekieve that "EVOLUTION" is inapplicable in this case. Instead we should consider Inherritance of genes. As it were the SO6P's kids did inherrit some od his traits, BUT, even though his genes survived (Hashirama, Madara, Ginkaku, Kinkaku), no one has re-exhibited the Rinnegan. And I am certain that there are lots of Uchiha/Senju hi-brids in Konoha.