View Poll Results: Rate this Chapter

Voters
11. You may not vote on this poll
  • Excellent

    4 36.36%
  • Great

    1 9.09%
  • So So

    6 54.55%
  • Bad

    0 0%
  • Terrible

    0 0%
Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst ... 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 42
  1. #31
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield, CA
    Posts
    6,813
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Spoiler!
    The manga defined a Bloodline Limit as the ability to combine two elements to make a completely new element (Water + Earth = Wood). You have to be born with it (or genetically modified). That's why you can get two people who are born into the same clan, but only one inherits the Bloodline Limit of the clan (Take Hashirama and Tsunade as an example). It isn't something that can be taught or learned. If it could, Kakashi would be using the Wood Element just like Yamato. Kakashi can use Water and Earth elements just like Yamato, but only Yamato can combine them both to make the Wood Element.

    In my opinion, you're just making it more difficult than it really is. If you are born with the Bloodline Limit, cool beans. If not, you just don't have it. The only exception to the rule seems to be with Eye Bloodline Limits (Sharingan/Byakugan) where everyone seems to have it in their clans.

  2. #32
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    The manga defined a Bloodline Limit as the ability to combine two elements to make a completely new element (Water + Earth = Wood). You have to be born with it (or genetically modified). That's why you can get two people who are born into the same clan, but only one inherits the Bloodline Limit of the clan (Take Hashirama and Tsunade as an example). It isn't something that can be taught or learned. If it could, Kakashi would be using the Wood Element just like Yamato. Kakashi can use Water and Earth elements just like Yamato, but only Yamato can combine them both to make the Wood Element.

    In my opinion, you're just making it more difficult than it really is. If you are born with the Bloodline Limit, cool beans. If not, you just don't have it. The only exception to the rule seems to be with Eye Bloodline Limits (Sharingan/Byakugan) where everyone seems to have it in their clans.
    Did you even read any of the post? Do you understand that in the manga we have had things defined early on, seemingly rigid, only to have it go all loosy goosey later on. For instance, the origin of kyubi, obtaining mangekyo, ...

    I took the understanding of how kekkei genkai works according to the manga and added another possible level of insight to justify what we saw this last chapter that caused plenty of people to complain.

    I'm sorry, but reciting literal definition has been proven to not hold weight or water concerning kishimoto's storytelling.

    Finally, are you going to show me the point where it's revealed that ooniki is related to muu? If i missed that then great, otherwise you have a "bloodline" ability more difficult than 2 elements being taught from one village inhabitant to another.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfield, CA
    Posts
    6,813
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Did you even read any of the post? Do you understand that in the manga we have had things defined early on, seemingly rigid, only to have it go all loosy goosey later on. For instance, the origin of kyubi, obtaining mangekyo, ...
    The origin of the Kyuubi: Spoken by people who couldn't possibly know the history behind it. So it was hearsay at best when we look back on it. The same with the origin of the Sharingan coming from the Byakugan; nothing but a rumor in-universe. No one really knows where it started from. Obtaining the Mangekyo: Itachi - "Kill the person closest to you." Aside from having to do it with your own hands not being true, we got a firsthand view of the latter half in action courtesy of Kakashi/Obito.

    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I took the understanding of how kekkei genkai works according to the manga and added another possible level of insight to justify what we saw this last chapter that caused plenty of people to complain.

    I'm sorry, but reciting literal definition has been proven to not hold weight or water concerning kishimoto's storytelling.
    I noticed, and I'm saying I think you're making it more difficult than need be. What's not to say that all those Bloodline Limit users don't hail from the same respective clans? We know a person with a Bloodline Limit tends to be found in clans among others the same as them (Haku, Kimimaro, Sasuke, Neji/Hinata). We just have to ignore that aspect them all having to be blood-related to one another somehow or other though since that's the only it would work in the Real World......... That is, of course, if there isn't some kinda superpower lottery going on depending on the parents' natural affinities when the child is born, which, if there is indeed no blood relations between two people with the same Bloodline Limit, that's the only way I can think of that occurring.

    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Finally, are you going to show me the point where it's revealed that ooniki is related to muu? If i missed that then great, otherwise you have a "bloodline" ability more difficult than 2 elements being taught from one village inhabitant to another.
    Sorry, can't help with that. There was no mention of their relation, and they certainly don't look very related. All we know is they both had the same Bloodline Limit, so Muu taught Oonoki how to go even further and add a third element to the mix. They might hail from the same clan, or the Ninja Gods looked down favorably on them and gave them their abilities out of the superpower lottery.

  4. #34
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    River Falls, WI
    Posts
    3,437
    I wonder what's causing the Juubi to "mature" / transform? Madara and Obito seem to be aware of this property... could it be part of the reason why they've held back its power for the most part so far? Could it be linked to the roots connecting the two Uchiha to the Juubi? Perhaps Natural Energy has something to do with it (it could be absorbing more).

  5. #35
    Senior Member Temperjoke's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,282
    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    I wonder what's causing the Juubi to "mature" / transform? Madara and Obito seem to be aware of this property... could it be part of the reason why they've held back its power for the most part so far? Could it be linked to the roots connecting the two Uchiha to the Juubi? Perhaps Natural Energy has something to do with it (it could be absorbing more).
    I was thinking about this. I think it's still part of the same process that was going on behind the shield that Obito put up around it, while it was assimilating the parts together within it. Obito and Madara were just forced to take control and use it before it was entirely ready due to Naruto/9-tails, Killerbee/8-tails, Kakashi, and Guy being stronger than they anticipated.

  6. #36
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    River Falls, WI
    Posts
    3,437
    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    I was thinking about this. I think it's still part of the same process that was going on behind the shield that Obito put up around it, while it was assimilating the parts together within it. Obito and Madara were just forced to take control and use it before it was entirely ready due to Naruto/9-tails, Killerbee/8-tails, Kakashi, and Guy being stronger than they anticipated.
    I guess I hadn't considered that. It didn't occur to me that the shield would have cracked prior to the Juubi being ready, although I suppose it's already gotten so much larger that it was inevitable. It also fully converted to Natural Energy and stopped reading as the Gedo Mazou from Naruto's sensory perspective, so I assumed that was the distinction that marked the Juubi's emergence as "complete." I guess that was clearly wrong, though, since it's obviously continuing its transformations.

  7. #37
    Senior Member tinatinaww's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Posts
    95
    Quote Originally Posted by Naamean View Post
    1/5. Worse than last week: boring and messy
    a bit boring, but I'd give it 3.

  8. #38
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    @Afro.

    All fair points, however, i think it's kishimoto who makes things confusing and the readers are left with speculation and guesswork. I don't think many readers of this forum will have difficulty understanding my point. Simply put, the bloodline limits as pertaining to the combination of elements to produce new elements should not be held strictly to hereditary confinement though should be within that confinement the majority of the time
    For me, i see it as a certain clan or family having a genetic predisposition within their chakra system to prodoce a certain element differently than other clans or ninjas. It might be levels of stamina or spirit is different or be caused by the clan's Yin or Yang levels inherited which the use in chakra molding. It's why i compared it to baking, two clans might have exact same ingredients (elemental chakras) but different in amounts. The cake (or jutsu) produced with identical ingredients will be quite different from each clan. The clan that has the odd or special way of composing one or two of those elements might then have a bloodline limit. I think that is the best way for this to work and justifies laser circus spam or teaching black lightning because it shows us that you can teach regulating Yin and Yang when composing elemental chakra. If every aspect is open to regulation then it would be possible for even a few elite shinobi to learn kekkai genkai from other clans so long as the have the elemental affinities and ability to fine tune the chakra molding process for the kekkai genkai.

    Finally, this chapter was frustrating because.... kishi displayed motivational scenes pretty ass backwards. He showed an assembled sarutobi clan, the only group mentioned by CLAN BTW, using a non kekkai genkai, a common fire technique. All other groups were introduced AS VILLAGES and you see some using kekkai genkai, if laser circus is indeed a bloodline limit didn't we see ninjas of different colored skin using it?

    Again, it's kishimoto that bends his rules or skews with ambiguity, that's the source of confusion, not the discussion afterwards. I understand and respect your pov, though
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  9. #39
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Fargo, North Dakota USA
    Posts
    6,952
    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    @Afro.

    All fair points, however, i think it's kishimoto who makes things confusing and the readers are left with speculation and guesswork. I don't think many readers of this forum will have difficulty understanding my point. Simply put, the bloodline limits as pertaining to the combination of elements to produce new elements should not be held strictly to hereditary confinement though should be within that confinement the majority of the time
    For me, i see it as a certain clan or family having a genetic predisposition within their chakra system to prodoce a certain element differently than other clans or ninjas. It might be levels of stamina or spirit is different or be caused by the clan's Yin or Yang levels inherited which the use in chakra molding. It's why i compared it to baking, two clans might have exact same ingredients (elemental chakras) but different in amounts. The cake (or jutsu) produced with identical ingredients will be quite different from each clan. The clan that has the odd or special way of composing one or two of those elements might then have a bloodline limit. I think that is the best way for this to work and justifies laser circus spam or teaching black lightning because it shows us that you can teach regulating Yin and Yang when composing elemental chakra. If every aspect is open to regulation then it would be possible for even a few elite shinobi to learn kekkai genkai from other clans so long as the have the elemental affinities and ability to fine tune the chakra molding process for the kekkai genkai.

    Finally, this chapter was frustrating because.... kishi displayed motivational scenes pretty ass backwards. He showed an assembled sarutobi clan, the only group mentioned by CLAN BTW, using a non kekkai genkai, a common fire technique. All other groups were introduced AS VILLAGES and you see some using kekkai genkai, if laser circus is indeed a bloodline limit didn't we see ninjas of different colored skin using it?

    Again, it's kishimoto that bends his rules or skews with ambiguity, that's the source of confusion, not the discussion afterwards. I understand and respect your pov, though
    I can't help but be sympathetic with Knifeater's thoughts. It just seems to me that Kishi is revising what was previously well accepted doctrine.

    There was a time when what was stated in the Chapter was Gospel and The Data Books' comments reflected the Truth of the Naruto Universe. Well as Afro Insinuated some of the Comments in The Chapters were not neccessarily reflective of fact, and could be interpreted as common misconceptions by people living inside the Covers of the Magazine. However, Kishi has freely aloud these "misconceptions to dominate reader's perceptions for a Decade. To me this smacks of Revisionism.

    In any case, A Kekkai Genkkai IS THE SAME as a Blood line limit, and has always been defined as an inherited (genetic) trait, regardless of the mechanics of how a Jutsu is actually performed. A kekkai Genkaai used to be bound within families or clans. I guess that the current chapter does not actually upturn our former conceptions of KG's but it does seem to come close to doing so.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  10. #40
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    532
    Question, what would happen if a hashirama level mokuton technique which suppresses or steals chakra.. was used against madara who can absorb jutsu with his rinnegan? I wouldn't ask regarding any other elemental or doukutsu because obviously madara can absorb it, however, mokuton seems to a significant exception because of how integral it is to the mazou and also its special intertwining relationship with strong life forces and Yang. Just curious, also, if obito used mokuton against madara would it be different than if hashirama used it against a rinnegan wielding madara? Obito also has the rinnegan, can he use it to nullify madara's absorption abilities at any time?

    For me it's a tough call whether mokuton would be special or not when it negotiates an opposing rinnegan absorption.

    Another question.. can rinnegan enhance or perform outright the gathering of natural energy and producing sage chakra? Can it absorb a sage chakra attack and allow the chakra to be used by the rinnegan holder?
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •