Naruto 612 Discussion / 613 Predictions

[Afro Thunda]

MANGASTREAM ver. CHAPTER 612

Well, it said maturity and not complete or perfect form. This probably means that now it is able to give birth. It's possible that Obito's wide collection of Sharingans, was meant as a source material for future Jyubi powered Sharingan user army. We already know that it's possible to create soldiers from it's Mazou state (the Zetsu), but now that it is in it's 10-tailed form and has matured... looks like play time is over. What's more, it's possible that Sasuke was meant as a trump card, or at least his eyes if it really comes down to it.

The Sarutobi clan... now that's quite a revelation, not to mention about their sheer number.

Methinks you're taking the Maturity line way more literally than need be. If anything, it likely only means that Jyuubi is moving towards the next stage of its evolution, plain and simple. Also, it's important to note that the Zetsus did not come from the Mazou statue itself. Madara/Tobi is responsible for creating them using the 1st's cells. However, the chakra from the statue was used to help make them.

[Rlinfamous]

I wonder what's going to happen... normally I'd say the Juubi will simply break free, possibly killing a few shinobi... but Naruto's real body is headed down there, straight into Madara/Obito/the Juubi, with nothing but Sage Mode to fall back on.

Wonder how the Juubi will look next chapter!

[knife eater]

Methinks you're taking the Maturity line way more literally than need be. If anything, it likely only means that Jyuubi is moving towards the next stage of its evolution, plain and simple. Also, it's important to note that the Zetsus did not come from the Mazou statue itself. Madara/Tobi is responsible for creating them using the 1st's cells. However, the chakra from the statue was used to help make them.

It makes you wonder why they stopped at hashirama 's cells. Madara or tobi could have used madara's cells and produced "artificial uchiha bodies". I know function and abilities would be different to zetsu's but therein is a complimenting perpendicular accompanied powers. Wonder if the mazou could have been used to help grow them.

Ofc, the twist might be that obito is the madara clone/form/version of zetsu or even uzuna's clone! It could seriously happen! Obito was shown to be a perfect fit with zetsu. Madara could have engineered obito in secret years ago and used a mind wipe or fake memories when finally inserted into konaha. WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT HE DID TO PEIN!!!!

There is little left to chance or coincidence at this point.

[Zero]

Methinks you're taking the Maturity line way more literally than need be. If anything, it likely only means that Jyuubi is moving towards the next stage of its evolution, plain and simple. Also, it's important to note that the Zetsus did not come from the Mazou statue itself. Madara/Tobi is responsible for creating them using the 1st's cells. However, the chakra from the statue was used to help make them.

I'm not sure about that. If that was the case, wouldn't some cells and chakra be enough for every village to have at least one army of clones ? Gathering chakra for a village doesn't seem like a hard thing to do, especially since some Kages have chakra pools on Bijuu levels. Even if we assume that the only way to do this was with Hashirama's cells, then wouldn't Oro have an army of that anyway ? The same way as he had an army of CS-users (well they were more like his lab rats ) ?

This seems to indicate that Jyubi's body itself had something to do with it, seeing as it was chakraless at the time of creating Zetsu (at least those that were created at Madara's time of living).

[artifice]

Perhaps the Juubi's perfect form will Regain its more human-like features, arms, legs, and face for instance.

That would be better, the current form of the Juubi looks ridiculous, I really hope the upgraded form is a more appealing design. The original statue was a far better design than this current blob monster.

[bigmarkg2]

The ninja alliance's jutsu are so awesome, it is a feast, but in the view of Obito and Madara, it seems has no effect to them...

[Afro Thunda]

This seems to indicate that Jyubi's body itself had something to do with it, seeing as it was chakraless at the time of creating Zetsu (at least those that were created at Madara's time of living).

It wasn't. We had a chapter where Madara said he would die instantly if he weren't being supplied chakra from the statue. And this was long before any bijuu were sealed inside it.

In any case, we don't know what method Madara used to make the Zetsus. Oro attempted to make clones of the 1st, but failed (with the exception of Yamato). So obviously, he did something different. And well, the villages seem to have enough humanity to keep them from going around and cloning people for shits and giggles like Oro was doing (if they had the skills/techniques/knowledge to do so).

[Majere]

I think, if memory serves, that a blood limit isn't the same thing that a kekkai genkai.

A blood-limit his an ability, characteristic of a certain clan, like uchiha having sharigan, Hyuuga having byakugan, kimimaros clan having the bone ability, juugo's having affinity with natural energy and so on.

A kekkai genkai is normally, a ninjutsu from one new element created from mixing 2 basic elements like Yamato's mokuton, Mizukage's Youton, Darui's Ranton, Tsuchikage's Jinton and so on.

Although like i said, in a population of an entire village, one kekkai genkai should be between rare and uncommon, witch would mean a few elite ninjas could perform them, i only say that in the case of Youton, maybe kishi draw too many, since there are a large portion of mist ninjas doing it.

On the subject, i agree with afro, on the fact that the statue wasn't chakraless, but it's hard to say if it only had raw/pure chakra, or if it was natural energy chakra or both, since the bijuu are chakra but the juubi is natural energy, it would be right to assume that the statue being what was left from the 10 tails being split into the 9 bijuu, would only be a body with some chakra left, or natural energy left and i'll explain why i throw this issue.

Last chapter i noticed something:

Spoiler!

http://i18.mangapanda.com/naruto/611/naruto-3724987.jpg

Look at the bottom middle panel, Kurama does the same stance/position that Naruto does when gathering natural energy to enter sage mode, and in the right panel, it says "Ill create and accumulate chakra", witch leeds me to believe that the bijuu being parts of the 10 tails witch is pure natural energy, can assimilate natural energy and convert it to pure/raw chakra (maybe because they cant control it or something).

This seeming true has it is, could indicate that naruto can't "fuse" sage mode with bijuu mode, because bijuu mode chakra comes from natural energy, or the other way round, since it comes from natural energy, it could be even more compatible with sage mode, it could go any way kishi wants, but even so, i think it's a big unveiling, or not

[Phixion]

I think, if memory serves, that a blood limit isn't the same thing that a kekkai genkai.

Kekkei genkai (血継限界; Literally meaning "a technique limited to inheritance by blood" or "Bloodline Limit")

[knife eater]

Well, an interesting wrench to throw into the argument would be to ask if muu and the current tsuchikage are blood related. They are the only ninjas known to use, "bloodline expansion", which in their case is manifest as "dust arts/techniques". There. Is less wiggle room here as you have a third element that must be used instead of just 2 and the odds are worse because it's rare for a ninja to have 3 natural elemental abilities. That being so rare and the fact muu and oonichi could compose the exact same 3 elements to perform dust arts yet where is any other indication they are blood related? They are from the same village from the same time period (with age difference) and oonichi learned the expansion techniques from muu but to my memory and knowledge was neither a son or nephew of muu's.

If that case is true then how much easier it is to accept "bloodline limits" as more open to interpretation and actual performance to unrelated shinobi but having the same elemental capabilities.

In the end i think 2 elements combined to make a tech is not necessarily a bloodline limit but bloodline limits outside of special doujutsus will require two elements. How would you classify black lightning?

The bloodline limit, i think, has been incorrectly assumed and the definition must include the moment where a certain clan or lineage has not only a certain elemental affinity but also a unique way of composing it. Crudely, it could be illustrated that all clans can produce bread but only one special clan can produce toast. So when they produce toast with the common composition of butter or jam you get a breakfast kekkei genkai whereas any other clan will produce an undesirable soft mess not fit for any meal.

Not only that, kekkei genkai outside the doikutsus (sharingan etc.) Should perhaps also be defined by Yin and Yang levels present or required by the technique. Not every water or earth element will be molded the same way as hashirama was the only person able to mold earth or water different from everyone else to produce mokuton.

Bloodline limits were just not adequately defined IMO and should be compared to baking. Backing is almost an exact science and two peoplevusing the exact same ingredients will produce wildly different results in texture and taste depending on measurements of each ingredient, extent of mixture and level of tempurature over time.

My understanding anyway since the simple definition the manga provided was not adequate in preventing confusion or seeming contradiction.