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  1. #31
    LOL, U MAD? Arbitrary's Avatar
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    Sooooooooooooo, I haven't been active in a while.

    May I just say that the previous chapter's ending was awesome!

    It's definitely one of the most badass poses Luffy has been drawn, ever!

    And now, Law shows his true power!

    I love this manga.

  2. #32
    Senior Member Blackriot69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xioaxioa View Post
    Yes we did. Bottom middle panel.
    I knew someone like you would post the page; I should've defended my claim from the get go. I didn't overlook the panel and acknowledge that the power swirl? typically denotes Law creating a room. However, in this case, we didn't see the actual Room borders. Was the Room merely implied by the swirl, something Oda has shown before and someting Scarred Luffy debates with Luffy's black-less haki punch, OR is Law using his powers in a different way here, as I argue, to imbue his sword.

    Quote Originally Posted by iMan` View Post
    Law's DF ability is not a problem for luffy cause even in his room law has to reach luffy and this is pretty hard for law. Vergo was so reckless and arrogant cause he thought he was above law like at past.
    How so? Law has teleportation damn you (though Luffy does have Gear 2). I'll say that they would be even if anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by SCarred Luffy Lvl:Z View Post
    Blackriot explains his in 1 of his other posts, but don't really understand the reasoning behind yours?


    Surprised no 1 mentioned, Now that Law sliced the mountain/ hideout wide open, does the gas automatically start filling up every part of the complex or/ is the part of the gas that spreads cut off and moved with the top part of the mountain/ was that 1 action enough to trick/ make it think it's covered as far as it can.

    Think maybe Blackriot mentioned this earlier, but starting to seem the best resolution , is some backup plan where CC merges with the gas, thus pushing Luffy to have to fight a little more towards his limits, in the new 1 vs 1 form, and it exploits the 1 weakness that gas cloud has; by giving it intelligence to go after a target, it doesn't just consume any and all space. Think this would also be a perfect way to see Luffy's limits for getting poisoned as well as what even more creative ways he's found to use his haki, not to mention newer ways to beat stronger logia users


    Think you're forgetting what Luffy 's training for "pure strength" was over the break. He was training mostly haki, nor normal training either. I think Rayleigh's phrase was something like 'beating the basics into him', and although overlooked quite often, In terms of power Luffy has 1 of the strongest punches shown in the OPU, that has progressively gotten stronger, and add Gears 2,3 rapidly magnifying that power and I'd say Luffy's pure power/ strength is farther from predictable then it might seem.

    And Xiaoxioa and IMan make good points, Vergo was veritably standing in 1 spot/ path area and attacking over-confidently. His defeat was almost pitch perfect replay of Luffy Gear 3rd against Lucci. Taking such attacks was just the stupidest decisions they could've made. I would think CC's point blank explosion dodging, and point blank gas burner that melts metal, shows Luffy should definitely be a match to even Law's switching places speed. Not to mention, so far we haven't even seen Luffy's uppermost limits.



    Although Xiaoxiao proved this wrong , do think this is the next logical progression to transcend his current limits except, it wouldn't be imbueing the sword/ weapon/ tool/ scalpel, it'd be more like also cutting through space and time 'more efficiently' sort of



    Think it's been stated before but it should be noted that Vergo might be "a bit"(varies) above most regular/ average VA since basically having to live the life of both a pirate and a marine at the same time. And Smoker probably basically sacrificed the whole fight to ensure he got Law's heart back to him without Vergo noticing. Wouldn't necessarily be so quick to call him weaker than you thought. And I must really mean it since I hate defending Smoker when it comes to his strength.




    Glad some1 else pointed this out. Any1 else also notice that although concealed by the dialogue box, Luffy's hand didn't appear 'blackened haki' on that second hit? With his face seemingly temporarily scrunched/ affected from Luffy's 1st hit last last chapter, Is it possible that because his haki wasn't strong enough, (and probably far weaker than Luffy's) to be 'smashed' by Luffy's superior haki actually like stopped his enough to boh stop him going back pure logia and be temporarily 'hittable' without haki...
    Or do you think Oda went back with the 'clear unseen' haki for that punch?

    Either way I think it's done for a reason; Oda's seeming switching between "blackened" and 'clear' haki .




    CC, Vergo, 3rd one is ....
    Monet?
    Ok first, I also mentioned Shinokune having easy access to the lab now, but like you said it was cut and I am wondering what degree that will have; is PH going to come crashing back down, or is Law going to leave it like this. He did say a few chapters back that he was going to make the lab unsafe, and if the underground corridor of Room 66 is the only safe place, maybe he intended to destroy PH afterall. (Also, I don't believe I was the one who mentioned the Caesar/Shinokuni mutation, though I appreciate the attempt at crediting me.)

    I wasn't arguing against Luffy's strength, but acknowledging that he is physically stronger than Law. Law simply has the tactical advantage of manipulating his surroundings.

    See my explanation to xioaxioa for supposedly proving me wrong and your black-less haki punch.

    By dismantled I meant Monet was cut in half by Zoro, Vergo was cut in half by Law, and my third reference was Caesar being pummeled by Luffy, though not finished yet.


    Quote Originally Posted by Galkie View Post
    What about the Nova Alliance.. are they with 5 crews ( Kidd/Hawkins/Apoo/Luffy/Law) Or are they 2 seperate alliances (Heart/Strawhats & Kidd/Hawkins/Apoo)

    Curious after the last page and Kidd claiming an few chapters ago that they also want to go after an Yonkou.
    Check my original post in this thread for my speculation on this matter.

  3. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by athary View Post
    The thing about luffy and law

    Law this arc has been shown beating a VA smoker. And then again vergo (though it isn't 100 % that vergo is done for it).
    the only reason law got "beaten/captured" was because of his hart.
    luffy had manny setbacks. i mean CC tricked him/captured him because he was being careless
    also monet managed to get a hold of him. he escaped though. luffy didn't have a solid disadvantage like law.
    for that luffy came out beeing under law, because monet and CC should be easy for him. just like zorro got monet.
    But then again donflamingo conforimed otherwise
    The thing about Monet is fighting her after she's surrounded you is like fighting the ocean after waking up unbeknowst underwater and every1 equally becomes df users to her/ the ocean. How so? Her snow 'forts/ igloos/ cones/ bubbles/ cage/ w.e. you wanna call it' are draining your energy, next thing you know she's touching you draining your energy even more, by the time you use haki she's already taken too much energy, "and you're still getting pulled further underwater". Since the last snow cage is so close, unless you can emit powerful energy without much physical energy, you're not breaking out with no room to gain enough power without enough physical energy. And not only is she draining energy , but all the while she's freezing you, thus slowing your metabolism, taking away your breath/ oxygen, so you can't get new energy, all the while exponentially losing energy as you lose time...
    Forget sandtrap/ Honeytrap, Monet is the ultimate snow trap. Main point being, Once she did that encasing him in layers of "snow forts" thing already, more than likely most fighters would lose to her at that point.



    By dismantled I meant Monet was cut in half by Zoro, Vergo was cut in half by Law, and my third reference was Caesar being pummeled by Luffy, though not finished yet.
    Nah, my fault. Although she's definitely strong in a sense, (see it more like Smoker's strength, or like the ocean's strength), And she received orders I believe, directly from Joker, think it's like some mental lapse to always see her as either lackey of CC, or Law's future crewmate. Brain was just confused when mentioning Joker's 3 associates.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackriot69 View Post
    I knew someone like you would post the page; I should've defended my claim from the get go. I didn't overlook the panel and acknowledge that the power swirl? typically denotes Law creating a room. However, in this case, we didn't see the actual Room borders. Was the Room merely implied by the swirl, something Oda has shown before and someting Scarred Luffy debates with Luffy's black-less haki punch, OR is Law using his powers in a different way here, as I argue, to imbue his sword.
    The thing about imbueing the ability into a sword/ or anything is that it sounds too much like an object/ thing devouring/ injecting/ digesting/ ingesting a DF. Just don't think Oda would want to confuse the audience like that, when it's already a confusing topic. However giving/ transferring / loaning/ trading temporarily an aspect of his ability perfectly suited to the tool/ sword/ weapon/ scalpel seems like a better balance/ compromise that Oda can make without confusing the matter more.


    I wasn't arguing against Luffy's strength, but acknowledging that he is physically stronger than Law. Law simply has the tactical advantage of manipulating his surroundings.


    (Should probably read this + below as somewhat combined responses to both questions. Realized I might've used the '/' a little bit too much in this post. For future reference, and this post Mostly use it to mean similar or the same meaning words or terms, that I put into as well in case slightly different wording might help some1 understand my point. I tend to especially use it when the point might be a little more complicated, which is why I used it here. )
    I understood. My point was explaining that Luffy's physical strength is a bit more intertwined with his haki and his body then might be considered before. When I say his body(I mentioned it a bit better probably in my post for Gear 4th), I mean technically Luffy's rubber body gives him the advantage over pretty much 95% of the OPU, as a starting point, not to mention the crazy upbringing from his Gramps. I'll explain. Unlike metal/ steel / or diamond, or even zoans, Rubber, as per the many methods mentioned(in many discussions including primarily the Gear 4th discussion), Rubber especially 'Oda's rubber' seems possible of (what's the best term) "conditioning itself" thru Luffy's force of will(not technically haki, literally force of will); besides as a starting point rubber is already far beyond even the toughest 'human skin, and body' you can find even in the OPU. (Know some1 might mention diamond/ steel/ seastone / or other metals, but they are more about being impenetrable in the first place. Rubber can be easily pierced but it's still a 'tough material' that Oda 's has made to constantly "refine/ purify/ enhance/ toughen itself without outside elements like the other elements mentioned above.)
    Add to that his improved Gear 2nd, haki CoA that we haven't even seen the uppermost limits of(but know that it helped him actually struggle thru a battle mostly underwater, something so far he's been the 1st and only df-user shown to do this so far), and the fact that unlike with Law's 'teleportation, Luffy's speed equals added mass/ power/ in other words improving his strength/ effectiveness/ power/ results of his strikes before and or after adding haki will substantially improve now. Even using BB's comment in ID as a reference( when while still not knowing pretty much anything about haki, BB said Luffy's haki had substantially/ marginally/ largely grown/ w.e. word/ term he used denoting not just a slim improvement) and we see that from Luffy not knowing haki, the only thing that he could have improved was his own physical strength, and or become more certain/ confident- thus improving will/ haki?
    Main point to get from that last half is that haki maybe once awakened, is more interconnected/ tied into physical strength growth, experience growth/ toughness growth/ energy/ endurance growth then can be predicted. And Luffy's Physical strength, which so far the fact that we've been given no actual indication of Law, Kidd, or Apoo's physical strength, even after seeing them fight( with Law it's been about 3 times or 'fights') just leans more towards, there being more than just a slight physical strength differential between Luffy and the rest of those I mentioned. Basically to connect these 2 thoughts; If haki and physical strength are so strongly tied together, or even just more like borderline tied together, (Of the supernovas not including Urogue) Luffy probably the physical strength leader, who also quite decently trained his haki as well, and was improving his haki somehow before knowing he had it, might have a bigger edge, just 2 years ago and possibly even more so now in the ' tough enough haki' category.


    How so? Law has teleportation damn you (though Luffy does have Gear 2). I'll say that they would be even if anything.
    Think you're seeing it more as previous Gear 2nd. There have been marked improvements in it's speed as denoted from CC's explosive, burning attacks mostly at all encompassing point blank range without any warning, attacks being dodged without any problem by a Luffy not trying his hardest.( some attacks from the equivalent of CC's minor teleportation- like speed ability, which more than likely the Pre-TS Luffy would not have been able to dodge, thus my point.) Then add CoO and I give Luffy the edge in terms of speed. Also with us not knowing the limits of his CoC, could be possible to read mind, thus his opponents (Law's in this instance) next position and Law's plan of attack ahead of time, giving a killer edge still reasonably above Law.


    I really think people from this chapter alone, has mistakenly theorized that after conquering Vergo's haki, it would take admiral level to match and stop Law's ability from cutting people. What has been explained I think by arisart is more than likely either way;
    1. Joker either underestimated the entire generations haki in comparisons to what they could achieve within 2 years,
    2. in comparison to what Vergo's haki was, or
    3. Law took a reasonable shortcut in focusing everything on a single line enhancing the cutting ability of the sword while Vergo went broad with utilizing his haki however impressive, but ironically making the exact same mistake he accused Smoker of making.

    The point of all this being either any of these by themselves or a couple are true:
    1 Law's stronger than Joker estimated,2 Law's stronger in comparison to Vergo than Joker estimated,3 Vergo's haki is weaker than Joker anticipated after doing nothing,4 Vergo's haki has less of an edge over Law than Joker thought, or 5 Law pursued a more tactical solution to overcome the possibly very superior haki. Leading to the point that None of these prohibit Luffy from being equally or more underestimated, nor does it prohibit Luffy from stopping/ catching with properly haki coated ligaments/ deflecting/ redirecting/parrying/ or just plain dodging/ evading Law's sword strikes, unlike what Vergo did.



    Ok first, I also mentioned Shinokune having easy access to the lab now, but like you said it was cut and I am wondering what degree that will have; is PH going to come crashing back down, or is Law going to leave it like this. He did say a few chapters back that he was going to make the lab unsafe, and if the underground corridor of Room 66 is the only safe place, maybe he intended to destroy PH afterall. (Also, I don't believe I was the one who mentioned the Caesar/Shinokuni mutation, though I appreciate the attempt at crediting me.)
    Pretty sure it was you, or maybe Zero in that 100 + comments forum discussion about 10 weeks ago(counting breaks, not necessarily numbering. 1st time I remember it being mentioned), although think you just mentioned a combination attack, I took it a bit farther to be a combined form because in the most ironic form this would weaken Shinokuni the right amount for people to believably survive.
    There are more things in heaven and earth then is dreamt of in your philosophy

  4. #34
    H+ xioaxioa's Avatar
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    Screw you, I'm not reading all of that. I'll just skim it. Instead, this lil bit: Counting Luffy's future victory over CC, The arc's big bads have all been defeated by Supernova's only.

    I Love You!
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  5. #35
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    In the opening to Gigant battle 2 it showed Law using his room as a sort of force field against Magellan's poison. While it is completely non cannon, maybe Law can use that to keep the gas out now that he cut the building in half. Personally, I doubt it, Law probably only cut the C section in half, so as long as he continues to the R section he should be fine. But still, I couldn't resist bringing it up (and really, he probably cut in half more then just C).
    Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off


  6. #36
    Senior Member Blackriot69's Avatar
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    So, xioaxioa, who's going to take out Buffalo and Baby 5 then? Supernovas again or possibly involve a tandom of Sanji and Zoro? Or are they simply going to gather the pieces of their comrades and head back to Dressrosa?

  7. #37
    H+ xioaxioa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackriot69 View Post
    So, xioaxioa, who's going to take out Buffalo and Baby 5 then? Supernovas again or possibly involve a tandom of Sanji and Zoro? Or are they simply going to gather the pieces of their comrades and head back to Dressrosa?
    Kid and Killer will show up for them.

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  8. #38
    Hee Hee Hee XD aggeroff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xioaxioa View Post
    Kid and Killer will show up for them.
    They'd better be really fast then, They are still in that meeting. Perhaps if Law gave them a little ring they might come. They probably wouldn't hear it over Apoo.

    Personally I think that Baby 5 and Buffalo might not get there in time and both the straw hats and Law would have left. Then the'll just collect Vergo and Monet (Caesar will have been taken by Law) and get back to Dressrosa. Then when we get to the Dofla arc Sanji can battle Vergo again (Monet, no idea).
    Aggravate, Anger, and Piss off


  9. #39
    Senior Member Blackriot69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xioaxioa View Post
    Kid and Killer will show up for them.
    Nope. I don't think so. This is one crazy idea that is not going to miraculously work out for you.


    Aggeroff, the idea of Buffalo and Baby 5 is possible, but if Shinokuni is going to cover the entire island, exactly how do they plan on actually stepping foot on the island let alone picking up Monet and Vergo who, unless someone saves them, are likely to be petrified by the time their cohorts arrive. Thus, I believe that Buffalo and Baby 5 have to arrive prior to the crew and associates leaving PH.

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