Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Predictions

[Stev3child]

Essentially this, yes. The Sharingan = the Yin component of the Rinnegan

What confuses me about this statement though, is that if the Sharingan is just an aspect of the Rinnegan, why does the Rinnegan lack the tomoes that the sharingan and the Juubi's eye has? What's the distinction that the difference in their appearance represent? Is some of the Sharingan's power lost in translation as the uchiha and senju blood interact as some sort of compromise between them in the process of combining those bloodlines?

Steve, the Rinnegan as we have learnt, is the amalgamation of the Sharingan (Yin), and Senju Lifeforce (Yang). In other words, the Rinnegan is Both Yin and Yang, therefore it does not require a separate Yin for its Yang.

See my response to RLinfamous

Last Chapter, Kurama said of the Juubi, "That thing doesn't have feellings or ideals". I may not fully understand this, but the Juubi doesn't seem like the imaginative/creative type to me. I can see how it maybe lumbers dropping energy bombs here and there, which Randomly, over time, RANDOMLY (I repeat), resulted in what exists, pretty much like how random mutation ends up through natural selection, into giving us meaningful life forms.

There are no hard and fast rules yet to determine what is needed to be able to create other than the ability to use the yin-yang release. With the Juubi being in an incomplete state it is hard to conclude as to what it's thought processes are especially with the added complication of having Obito and Madara commandeering it.

Finally, the Sharingan as we've known it has had certain basic abilities, Genjutsu, Susanoo, Amaterasu. I somehow don't see how or why the Juubi would use these abilities.

Those jutsus are simply born from utilizing the sharingan's innate yin affinity, of which is necessary for the Juubi to perform its job.

[paulbee]

Steve, My memories may be incomplete but I don't think that Susanoo is just a Jutsu. If I recall correctly, Susanoo seems to be an essential Consequence of awakening the Mangekyou Sharingan., the same is true with Amaterasu. The Left eye conjures one, and the right eye conjures the other. These things are locked in Consequences of possessing MS.

It's possible that they were added later on by the SO6P

[Stev3child]

Steve, My memories may be incomplete but I don't think that Susanoo is just a Jutsu. If I recall correctly, Susanoo seems to be an essential Consequence of awakening the Mangekyou Sharingan., the same is true with Amaterasu. The Left eye conjures one, and the right eye conjures the other. These things are locked in Consequences of possessing MS.

It's possible that they were added later on by the SO6P

No your memory is just fine as you are right in what you say. Let me then amend my statement. Those jutsus inherent to the Sharingan, may just be an abstraction that manifests once you separate and isolate the Juubi's yin aligned power into its own form(sharingan).

[Majere]

What confuses me about this statement though, is that if the Sharingan is just an aspect of the Rinnegan, why does the Rinnegan lack the tomoes that the sharingan and the Juubi's eye has? What's the distinction that the difference in their appearance represent? Is some of the Sharingan's power lost in translation as the uchiha and senju blood interact as some sort of compromise between them in the process of combining those bloodlines?

It isn't stated that the evolution of sharigan to rinnegan is just the sum of various abilities/powers of the sharigan plus rinnegan, but rather those powers evolving and displaying new abilites.

So it's right to assume that power isn't lost, but rather enhanced and so, like the majority of powers in different mangas, the evolution is recognized by a chance in appearance.

The rinnegan may not show the sharigan tomoes but that doesn't mean that it isn't capable of similar function (view things very slow from the user's point), but it rather evolved to the point that it doesnt need to be contained in a pair of eyes, because the rinnegan user, can summon/use other bodies with rinnegan, and so all the eyes are linked (like we see on the pain vs jiraya and pain vs naruto), so the tomoes/sharigan ability, has evolved and not been lost.

That's why, edo madra, had to change from sharigan to rinnegan and back again to rinnegan in the fight agaisnt the kages, because in rinnegan eyes, he has the evolving powers if sharigan, and so, not able to use that power/ability of sharigan level eyes, and vice versa.

[Stev3child]

It isn't stated that the evolution of sharigan to rinnegan is just the sum of various abilities/powers of the sharigan plus rinnegan, but rather those powers evolving and displaying new abilites.

I totally agree with that, and that has always been my contention. Though I'm addressing claims(unless I read Rlinfamous wrong) that the Rinnegan is the net worth of it's entire evolutionary line of doujutsus.

So it's right to assume that power isn't lost, but rather enhanced and so, like the majority of powers in different mangas, the evolution is recognized by a chance in appearance.

The rinnegan may not show the sharigan tomoes but that doesn't mean that it isn't capable of similar function (view things very slow from the user's point), but it rather evolved to the point that it doesnt need to be contained in a pair of eyes, because the rinnegan user, can summon/use other bodies with rinnegan, and so all the eyes are linked (like we see on the pain vs jiraya and pain vs naruto), so the tomoes/sharigan ability, has evolved and not been lost.

That's why, edo madra, had to change from sharigan to rinnegan and back again to rinnegan in the fight agaisnt the kages, because in rinnegan eyes, he has the evolving powers if sharigan, and so, not able to use that power/ability of sharigan level eyes, and vice versa.

You are right. The process of evolving the Sharingan to Rinnegan does not cause a loss in power. However, unless the Sharingan is an inherent property of the Rinnegan, the Rinnegan would not contain the jutsus and abilities of the Sharingan and thus, a cause a loss to the connection to the sharingan under certain conditions(e.g. transplanting to a different body). Madara does not need to worry as he has endeavored the evolution from the lowest level of the doujutsu, retaining all of the power he accumulated in the process.

Also just a minor point, the Rinnegan does not enhance any specific jutsus of the previous forms. To use MS jutsus, you must switch to MS. There are no Rinnegan variants of MS jutsus and it is a total change of direction in the abilities gained in the evolution.

One more thing. Why does the appearance of the Juubi's eye show it's relationship with the sharingan, but the Rinnegan, which is supposed to be an evolved form lack this physical property? With the above statements, the conclusion I feel most drawn to is that the Juubi's eye is the ultimate doujutsu, containing both the Sharingan and Rinnegan abilities(plus any other possible ability) simultaneously into one gestalt form. That would befit Juubi's status as "progenitor of everything" lol.