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  1. #61
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by true86no View Post
    I'm perplexed.

    Isn't the Juubi's eye an amalgamation of the Rinnegan/Sharigan because he is being controlled by Obito with his Sharigan/Rinnegan combo? Ala how the kyubi's eyes were Sharigan when it was being controlled by one-eyed Sharigan Obito).

    Am I the one who is wrong on this? It seemed pretty obvious..

    Also the man-who-knows-everything is either sotsp or madara's brother.
    Originally, I assumed the Juubi's eye reflected the Sharingan/Rinnegan due to being under the control of the Sage of Six Paths' Genjutsu (based on the original picture of the So6P/Juubi). However, seeing it now, I believe it actually has that eye, by its own power. The Sharingan/Rinnegan were present prior to Madara/Obito 're-syncing' with the Juubi, which was not the case in any of the eyes on the Gedo Mazou. So I assume that their control is being exerted, not through pure doujutsu, but through the root-like connections (which are tangible, and thus a physical/spiritual form of mind-control, similar to Pain's black rods).

    Therefore, it seems to me that the Juubi actually has that eye (and probably has something to do with the Sharingan/Rinnegan lineage/ the So6P/Uchiha legacy).

    This fits with what we know about the clans with notable links to the Rikudou (Uchiha/Senju/Uzumaki/Hyuga). Prior to the Uchiha, no ninja clan or ninja power seems to emphasize Yin energies to the extent that the Sharingan does; where is the precedent to the exceptional Spiritual Energies of the Uchiha Clan, even if they received these from the Rikudou? It's not hard to imagine the Rikudou came from a clan similar to the Senju/Uzumaki, and merely had a very powerful body capable of becoming the Juubi Jinchuuriki. However, as no one besides the Rikudou and Uchiha possessed powerful Spiritual Powers (even the Byakugan lacks significant Yin powers, who ever heard of a Byakugan-based Genjutsu?), I would gladly accept the Juubi being the original source of the Rinnegan.

    Perhaps, originally, the only Jutsu were sealing techniques, which the Rikudou's clan possessed. Upon defeating the Juubi and sealing it within himself, the Rikudou awakened the Juubi's Rinnegan (granting him power over Creation / life+death, same as the Juubi). Thus, he understood the nature of chakra/the universe, and passed that down as ninjutsu to humanity. Upon separating the power of the Juubi into the nine Bijuu, he also passed the Juubi's spiritual energies/ doujutsu on to his firstborn son, the Elder Brother / Uchiha forefather.

  2. #62
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    It is looking like Kishi is Gonna source the Rinnegan to The Juubi same as the Sharingan. If he does I'll be pretty disappointed.

    If the SO6P takes on the Juubi with nothing but sealing techniques. Did he already have the extreme life force, the ability to use all 5 elements, and ninjutsu when he went up against the Juubi?

    Graah! Not liking this.

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  3. #63
    Konoha graduating class vs Uchihas and Jubi? No contest, Konoha teens rule!

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    Originally, I assumed the Juubi's eye reflected the Sharingan/Rinnegan due to being under the control of the Sage of Six Paths' Genjutsu (based on the original picture of the So6P/Juubi). However, seeing it now, I believe it actually has that eye, by its own power. The Sharingan/Rinnegan were present prior to Madara/Obito 're-syncing' with the Juubi, which was not the case in any of the eyes on the Gedo Mazou. So I assume that their control is being exerted, not through pure doujutsu, but through the root-like connections (which are tangible, and thus a physical/spiritual form of mind-control, similar to Pain's black rods).

    Therefore, it seems to me that the Juubi actually has that eye (and probably has something to do with the Sharingan/Rinnegan lineage/ the So6P/Uchiha legacy).

    This fits with what we know about the clans with notable links to the Rikudou (Uchiha/Senju/Uzumaki/Hyuga). Prior to the Uchiha, no ninja clan or ninja power seems to emphasize Yin energies to the extent that the Sharingan does; where is the precedent to the exceptional Spiritual Energies of the Uchiha Clan, even if they received these from the Rikudou? It's not hard to imagine the Rikudou came from a clan similar to the Senju/Uzumaki, and merely had a very powerful body capable of becoming the Juubi Jinchuuriki. However, as no one besides the Rikudou and Uchiha possessed powerful Spiritual Powers (even the Byakugan lacks significant Yin powers, who ever heard of a Byakugan-based Genjutsu?), I would gladly accept the Juubi being the original source of the Rinnegan.

    Perhaps, originally, the only Jutsu were sealing techniques, which the Rikudou's clan possessed. Upon defeating the Juubi and sealing it within himself, the Rikudou awakened the Juubi's Rinnegan (granting him power over Creation / life+death, same as the Juubi). Thus, he understood the nature of chakra/the universe, and passed that down as ninjutsu to humanity. Upon separating the power of the Juubi into the nine Bijuu, he also passed the Juubi's spiritual energies/ doujutsu on to his firstborn son, the Elder Brother / Uchiha forefather.
    Sorry but my thoughts are simpler and without wild assumptions.

    The Juubi is under genjutsu from the beginning because it was summoned and genjutsued by Uchihas much like how the Kyuubi was summoned and was already genjutsued.

    Pein's black rods does not mind control, they are merely for body control like that Sand guy with the puppets. The black rods are special to Pein, they allow manipulation/re-animation of dead bodies without the body rotting and without the need for souls.

    The pipe things are there because Obito and Madara want/need to suck/use Juubi's chakra for continuous genjutsu to control the Juubi and for the infinite tsukuyomi.

    Ever thought about why Madara need the Juubi's Chakra for infinite Tsukuyomi even though as a undead he is suppose to have unlimited chakra? As an undead his chakra is unlimited but his vessel is still small hence he needs Juubi's vast ocean of Chakra.

    The Gezou Madou doesn't have the eyes because it is just a construct built by the Rinnegan to hold/pool tail's chakra, it doesn't need to be mind controlled - it has no mind.

  5. #65
    [̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅] guy's Avatar
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    Yeah I would like Juubi to be under a genjutsu, it explains how Tobi and Madara are controlling it right now.

    Also to have his eye as a sharingan/rinnegan, I believe that means Tobi and not Madara is controlling him, when Naruto and his talk no jutsu final seeps in to Tobi, I believe it will play out for Naruto's benefit.

    A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.

  6. #66
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Madara established that he could draw on power from the Mazou, and also insert his own Will, by using those roots. He also stated that one needed both Senju and Uchiha power to control the Mazou; to me, this does not suggest that Doujutsu alone is sufficient. Also, we saw the Kyuubi fall under Genjutsu when it was being controlled, but never saw Obito or Madara look the Juubi in the eye to control it (the Kyuubi's revival and the Juubi's revival are not similar, either). And the Juubi has a different number of tomoe present in its eye than in the image we saw of it battling the Rikudou; to me, this reflects the incomplete nature of the present Juubi, and also that the Sharingan/Rinnegan pattern is its own, and not a result of Genjutsu.

    Finally, it's pretty obvious why Madara/Obito need the Juubi's chakra, so I don't think explaining the limitations of Madara's "unending" chakra are necessary.
    Last edited by Rlinfamous; 12-03-2012 at 04:52 PM.

  7. #67
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I'm less inclined to believe that the Juubi is under Genjutsu, and more inclined to believe that Madara and Tobi have Jacked themselves directly into the Juubi via the Umbilici at the backs of their necks. Remember that the Devilish Duo practically rebuilt the Juubi and had all the time in the world to control its rebirth. Furthermore, we have had no indication of Dojutsu being used since it was revived.

    One thing that puzzles me is that if the Juubi is the source of the Sharingan, what did it use it for? This current reincarnation of the Juubi has no coherent mentality (not saying it is mindless, just that it doesn't appear to think coherent thoughts like we do). What in the world would this Juubi or what did the Original Juubi use its Sharingan for? To me a primal Beast like the Juubi would benefit more from a Rinnegan than from a Sharingan.

    Lastly I feel compelled to repeat my sentiment that I hope that the Juubi si not the source of the Rinnegan. It would boggle my mind that SO6P with nothing but sealing techs could go up against an All Powerful beast, a creature with Unlimited Chakra, Unlimited Natural Energy, Ubber 9 Tomoe Sharingan, and probably a Rinnegan. Such a beast could do ANYTHING, create anything, destroy anything. Capturing and disassembling this beast with only sealing Techs would be really hard to swallow. I suppose the SO6P could have had a Super Souped up Body/Mind possesion technique similar to the Inoichi clan, and he could have taken over the beast before using its own power against it.

    As I've noted before, there are ninjas with ripples in their eyes that were not Rinnegan ripples. I do so hope that the Juubi's ripples are not Rinnegans.

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  8. #68
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that I understand your confusion. If the Juubi created everything, as in, everything is derived from him, that would also include Rikudou's rinnegan right?

    Also, about what the Juubi would do with the sharingan? The Sharingan is aligned with the yin part of creation so it would be used to imagine the world while the Rinnegan's yang alignment would be used to realize it.
    QUOTE(s) OF THE MOMENT

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    I swear if your theories were any dumber I would be retarded...

  9. #69
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stev3child View Post
    I'm not sure that I understand your confusion. If the Juubi created everything, as in, everything is derived from him, that would also include Rikudou's rinnegan right?

    Also, about what the Juubi would do with the sharingan? The Sharingan is aligned with the yin part of creation so it would be used to imagine the world while the Rinnegan's yang alignment would be used to realize it.
    Essentially this, yes. The Sharingan = the Yin component of the Rinnegan; the Juubi uses the Yin to imagine form and then can grant life to that form. There's really no other way it could be the "Progenitor"/creator of living things, the manga has established exactly how creation works.

    Now, the Yin is typically associated with mental energies, which the Juubi presently seems to lack...we'll have to see what happens. I think Naruto's gift from the Bijuu may play a role in restoring independent intelligence to the Juubi.

  10. #70
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stev3child View Post
    I'm not sure that I understand your confusion. If the Juubi created everything, as in, everything is derived from him, that would also include Rikudou's rinnegan right?

    Also, about what the Juubi would do with the sharingan? The Sharingan is aligned with the yin part of creation so it would be used to imagine the world while the Rinnegan's yang alignment would be used to realize it.
    Steve, the Rinnegan as we have learnt, is the amalgamation of the Sharingan (Yin), and Senju Lifeforce (Yang). In other words, the Rinnegan is Both Yin and Yang, therefore it does not require a separate Yin for its Yang.

    Last Chapter, Kurama said of the Juubi, "That thing doesn't have feellings or ideals". I may not fully understand this, but the Juubi doesn't seem like the imaginative/creative type to me. I can see how it maybe lumbers dropping energy bombs here and there, which Randomly, over time, RANDOMLY (I repeat), resulted in what exists, pretty much like how random mutation ends up through natural selection, into giving us meaningful life forms.

    Finally, the Sharingan as we've known it has had certain basic abilities, Genjutsu, Susanoo, Amaterasu. I somehow don't see how or why the Juubi would use these abilities.

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