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  1. #11
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    Yeah but you're comparing apples to oranges. And i'm not just talking about Vaizards to Arrancars. These arrancars were nothing special in terms of power before becoming arrancars. They were not Vasto Lordes which would be the most powerful incarnation.
    However the Vaizards are. They are from captains and Lieutenants. The most powerful rankings of Soul reapers.

    If Ulquira had a 2nd release this tells me we haven't seen the extent of what a true Shingamification is capable of. There is no telling what a Vasto Lorde who goes through this process will be capable of.

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  2. #12
    This Machine Pwns n00bs Amargo Deathscythe's Avatar
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    i would consider the release of a espada blade bankai. only diff between espada and vizards is no shikai which is an advantage

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  3. #13
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueiris385 View Post
    Yeah but you're comparing apples to oranges. And i'm not just talking about Vaizards to Arrancars. These arrancars were nothing special in terms of power before becoming arrancars. They were not Vasto Lordes which would be the most powerful incarnation.
    However the Vaizards are. They are from captains and Lieutenants. The most powerful rankings of Soul reapers.

    If Ulquira had a 2nd release this tells me we haven't seen the extent of what a true Shingamification is capable of. There is no telling what a Vasto Lorde who goes through this process will be capable of.

    i do agree that maybe a more powerful being is capable of a fully transformation

    but to say captains are the highest class of a shinigami is only based on what we have thus far seen. i wouldnt be surprised to find out about stronger shinigami's that protect the king of ss.

    hypothetical: if a vasto lorde goes threw it and they transformation is the same just with a considerable power boost what then? could it be assume the hogyoku is inperfect? and that tho hard the only way to achieve the perfect mix is threw natural means?


    another question poped in my head. if natural arrancar are considerably weaker then the espada that have been artificially created why is ichigo so strong compared to the artifical made vizards? what makes him so special ( other then being the main character lol.)

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  4. #14
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Captains are the highest (recognized) class of Shinigami. Even the Squad Zero Shinigami are made up of former Captains. So its not wrong to think the Captains are the best of the best in SS.

    Well Hollows aren't the same as Shinigami. The processes they go through to achieve their power gains are not the same. Shinigami put on a Hollow mask to become Vizards. Hollows take off their Hollow masks to become Arrancar. So what applies to a Hollow may not necessarily apply to a Shinigami.

    Now I'm seeing that you think that the transformations of a Hollow to Arrancar and Shinigami to vizard should be made similar by the Hogyoku, giving them similar abilities. But that just isn't the case obviously. Hollows have their own way of gaining power as do the Shinigami. The Hogyoku just makes that transformation easier for both sides.

  5. #15
    ɹǝʎʍɐן Я I Hand Banana's Avatar
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    If it wasn't for that last post I still would be confused on what he is talking about.

  6. #16
    Senior Member tsubasa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by afro thunda View Post
    Captains are the highest (recognized) class of Shinigami. Even the Squad Zero Shinigami are made up of former Captains. So its not wrong to think the Captains are the best of the best in SS.

    Well Hollows aren't the same as Shinigami. The processes they go through to achieve their power gains are not the same. Shinigami put on a Hollow mask to become Vizards. Hollows take off their Hollow masks to become Arrancar. So what applies to a Hollow may not necessarily apply to a Shinigami.

    Now I'm seeing that you think that the transformations of a Hollow to Arrancar and Shinigami to vizard should be made similar by the Hogyoku, giving them similar abilities. But that just isn't the case obviously. Hollows have their own way of gaining power as do the Shinigami. The Hogyoku just makes that transformation easier for both sides.

    if they are former captains and are the protectors of the king then what do you call them? they must be very strong compared to your average captain else why pick them as the kings protectors.

    the hogyoku is ment to dissolve the line of shinigamis and hollows. if all it does is give them similar abilities but not becoming similar being then that is wrong. it wouldnt dissolve anything only pick and choose similarities.

    what the hogyoku SHOULD do based on what its said to do compared to what it ACTUALLY does based on the evidence that is the arrancar and vizard. it SHOULD create similar beings that have similar abilities but vary, just as much as would one shinigami from another( or hollow from another). but what it ACTUALLY does is make them look similar but thats where similarities end.

    they are still flip sides of the same coin only this coin has been slightly effected by the hogyoku. still shinigami and hollow but with a pretty new face.

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  7. #17
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
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    if they are former captains and are the protectors of the king then what do you call them? they must be very strong compared to your average captain else why pick them as the kings protectors.
    Strength or ranking doesn't matter, their title does. Captain is still the top title in SS that you can attain except the captain commander. Among the hollows the three top ranks are gillian, adjuchas and vasto lorde. So far none of the arrancars we've seen have been confimed to be VL.

    Individual differences between strength doesn't matter.

    Honestly, I still don't get why you are so nuts about that the Hogukyoku must perfectly blur the lines. Just accept that it doesn't, and to me that makes perfect since, because it's not, I reiterate, intended to.

    You are indeed comparing apples to pears. Yes, they may seem similar but they are still difference species. Same rules CANNOT apply. Look at this way. a Human fetus and a monkey fetus are exactly the same up until at some point when each fetus develops into our two different species. There is a 1% (!) DNA difference between primapes and humans. You can apply that to hollows to. But does that 1% difference make them the same? No, it doesn't. And it would be kind of stupid to not have their individual species retain their specifics; how then can we even recognize what is what? We can't. They wouldn't even be able to tell friend from foe. There are many reasons why Kubo most likely haven't chosen to let the arrancars come exact copies of the vizard, but accept that Ichigo is Ichigo, what happens to him cannot be applied to any other different character. Call it plotkai or whatever, but that's how it is.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think that the Vizards were created with the Hogyoku. I thought we weren't sure by what method Aizen and Urahara used to transform them.

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  9. #19
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blueiris385 View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think that the Vizards were created with the Hogyoku. I thought we weren't sure by what method Aizen and Urahara used to transform them.
    We don't know what Aizen did to make Shinji and co. begin transforming into Hollows. But Urahara used the Hogyoku to stop the transformation, resulting in the Vizards. Urahara thought he failed though.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Shinhan's Avatar
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    so the Hogyoku was used on them. I must have missed that. I thought it was implied but never stated.

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