The Doujutsu Discussion Thread

[Shinhan]

It's like you wait until I step out of the front door....

People, I have no problem with heated debate. As long as it doesn't degenerate into name calling.

There was no name calling. I was just saying it would be dumb to choose those choices on the poll. I wasn't even talking about the thread opener really. Didn't mean to come off that way if I did anyway.

[Rokudaime Sennin ™]

I'd say the Sharingan is closer to the Ninjutsu aspect than to the Genjutsu aspect. Rinnegan allows its user to master all elements, Sharingan allows its user to copy any technique (that's not a Bloodline Limit). Sounds pretty similar. Rinnegan allows its user (with the help of extra bodies) to see in 'x' amount of directions. Byakugan allows its user to see long distances (Hinata: at least 10 Kilometers right now) and see through solid objects. To me, it looks like the Sharingan and the Byakugan took some base abilities of the Rinnegan and improved upon them.

Let's see, the sharingan has great resistance to genjutsu, it has a mind control/manipulation genjutsu, one of it's Mangekyou is the strongest optical genjutsu, all the great uchihas, Itachi, Shisui, Sasuke excel in genjutsu. And more importantly I think the Mangekyou controls the kyubi using a genjutsu also. And the elder brother got the "mind", spiritual energy of Rikudou, the area genjutsu affects and specializes in. So I'd say the sharingan is pretty much a genjutsu based doujutsu first, ninjutsu is secondary for it.

Sharingan has some ninjutsu capabilities but they pale in comparison to the Rinnegan. The rinnegan allows it's user to master all elements, learn any jutsu, even copy kekkeigenkais while the sharingan can copy jutsus but isn't guaranteed to be able to perform them if they either lack the skill or elemental affinity. So the Rinnegan is ninjutsu, Sharingan is genjutsu, and Byakugan is taijutsu.

And the rinnegan doesn't allow it's user to see in 6 directions, that was only a side effect of Gedou Mazou. The six paths of pain would never have been created if it weren't for Nagato summoning Gedou Mazou. We saw the original Rikudou was fine until he was on his deathbed and he still had the powers of the six paths all in one body. If Nagato was healthy like Rikudou, he would've been far too powerful for Naruto or any1 to defeat, so he had to be crippled. As of now, we can only speculate on the byakugan's relationship to the Rinnegan.

But one thing has been confirmed by kishimoto for sure. That Rikudou split his Rinnegan power among his two sons, giving the elder brother a doujutsu, not the rinnegan, but one with half it's power, and the precursor to the sharingan. It was also stated that the bloodline of the elder brother kept getting diluted up until the point the uchiha clan was formed. Maybe the clan's sharingan preservation, by marrying into their own, stopped further dilution at some point. But the base sharingan is definitely a diluted albeit very specialized form of the elder brother's doujutsu which itself was 50% power of the rinnegan. I think you will agree with me on this also, right?

POW brought up a really good point earlier on. Madara is about 100 years old, fukasaku sennin (pa sage) is about 800 years old and even he had assumed that the Rinnegan was a myth. So this means that the Rinnegan & Rikudou sennin are atleast 800-900 years old. The bloodline had kept thinning since then.

Ok, now here's where I don't understand your logic, how can you call the elder brother's doujutsu crap? His doujutsu was only one generation away from the Rinnegan. The sharingan didn't evolve from the elder brother's doujutsu, it basically devolved quite a bit until it stopped due to the uchiha clan being formed. Your logic doesn't work, first you have this supreme doujutsu, then another doujutsu is derived from it with half it's power and your calling that doujutsu weaker than the base sharingan? Seriously? Just cause it isn't mentioned as one of the 3 great doujutsus, it's only because it doesn't exist in it's original form, it came to be known as the Sharingan, and possibly byakugan. Here's what I believe, when the sharingan becomes the Mangekyou, it's basically evolving again back to it's original form, the one that the elder brother had. EMS is even closer to that of the Elder brother's doujutsu. The deevolution of the sharingan from the elder brother's doujutsu retained the genjutsu capabilites while losing the ninjutsus it originally came with. When the rinnegan activates, the user is granted all the jutsus of the 6 paths. When Mangekyou activates the user is granted 3 jutsus, where exactly do you think these jutsus come from? Look at the nature of these jutsus, Amaterasu, black flames from hell, Tsukuyomi, torture & pain, the moon associated with the underworld, & Susanoo, a guardian deity that destroys everything in it's path without discrimination. These are all evil jutsus, and I think they originally belonged to the Elder brother. Maybe this is the true power of the sharingan Madara is referring to, when he seeks perfection, cause he knows he'll never have the Rinnegan, only Rikudou and his reincarnates get that, but Madara can acquire all the powers of the next best thing, the elder brother's doujutsu. This is what he's seeking, and this is something only Sasuke will achieve.

[bradley]

^ ok with everything expect u said this is suming only sasuke will achieve that doesnt make since considering where he is now

[peaceful]

Spoiler!

Let's see, the sharingan has great resistance to genjutsu, it has a mind control/manipulation genjutsu, one of it's Mangekyou is the strongest optical genjutsu, all the great uchihas, Itachi, Shisui, Sasuke excel in genjutsu. And more importantly I think the Mangekyou controls the kyubi using a genjutsu also. And the elder brother got the "mind", spiritual energy of Rikudou, the area genjutsu affects and specializes in. So I'd say the sharingan is pretty much a genjutsu based doujutsu first, ninjutsu is secondary for it.

Sharingan has some ninjutsu capabilities but they pale in comparison to the Rinnegan. The rinnegan allows it's user to master all elements, learn any jutsu, even copy kekkeigenkais while the sharingan can copy jutsus but isn't guaranteed to be able to perform them if they either lack the skill or elemental affinity. So the Rinnegan is ninjutsu, Sharingan is genjutsu, and Byakugan is taijutsu.

And the rinnegan doesn't allow it's user to see in 6 directions, that was only a side effect of Gedou Mazou. The six paths of pain would never have been created if it weren't for Nagato summoning Gedou Mazou. We saw the original Rikudou was fine until he was on his deathbed and he still had the powers of the six paths all in one body. If Nagato was healthy like Rikudou, he would've been far too powerful for Naruto or any1 to defeat, so he had to be crippled. As of now, we can only speculate on the byakugan's relationship to the Rinnegan.

But one thing has been confirmed by kishimoto for sure. That Rikudou split his Rinnegan power among his two sons, giving the elder brother a doujutsu, not the rinnegan, but one with half it's power, and the precursor to the sharingan. It was also stated that the bloodline of the elder brother kept getting diluted up until the point the uchiha clan was formed. Maybe the clan's sharingan preservation, by marrying into their own, stopped further dilution at some point. But the base sharingan is definitely a diluted albeit very specialized form of the elder brother's doujutsu which itself was 50% power of the rinnegan. I think you will agree with me on this also, right?

POW brought up a really good point earlier on. Madara is about 100 years old, fukasaku sennin (pa sage) is about 800 years old and even he had assumed that the Rinnegan was a myth. So this means that the Rinnegan & Rikudou sennin are atleast 800-900 years old. The bloodline had kept thinning since then.

Ok, now here's where I don't understand your logic, how can you call the elder brother's doujutsu crap? His doujutsu was only one generation away from the Rinnegan. The sharingan didn't evolve from the elder brother's doujutsu, it basically devolved quite a bit until it stopped due to the uchiha clan being formed. Your logic doesn't work, first you have this supreme doujutsu, then another doujutsu is derived from it with half it's power and your calling that doujutsu weaker than the base sharingan? Seriously? Just cause it isn't mentioned as one of the 3 great doujutsus, it's only because it doesn't exist in it's original form, it came to be known as the Sharingan, and possibly byakugan. Here's what I believe, when the sharingan becomes the Mangekyou, it's basically evolving again back to it's original form, the one that the elder brother had. EMS is even closer to that of the Elder brother's doujutsu. The deevolution of the sharingan from the elder brother's doujutsu retained the genjutsu capabilites while losing the ninjutsus it originally came with. When the rinnegan activates, the user is granted all the jutsus of the 6 paths. When Mangekyou activates the user is granted 3 jutsus, where exactly do you think these jutsus come from? Look at the nature of these jutsus, Amaterasu, black flames from hell, Tsukuyomi, torture & pain, the moon associated with the underworld, & Susanoo, a guardian deity that destroys everything in it's path without discrimination. These are all evil jutsus, and I think they originally belonged to the Elder brother. Maybe this is the true power of the sharingan Madara is referring to, when he seeks perfection, cause he knows he'll never have the Rinnegan, only Rikudou and his reincarnates get that, but Madara can acquire all the powers of the next best thing, the elder brother's doujutsu. This is what he's seeking, and this is something only Sasuke will achieve.

This post is full of contradictions, lies, inaccuracies, baselless assumptions...

One example is that Rinnegan can copy Keke Genkais...

[Rokudaime Sennin ™]

This post is full of contradictions, lies, inaccuracies, baselless assumptions...

One example is that Rinnegan can copy Keke Genkais...

Correction: Rinnegan can copy other 2 doujutsus, which are technically, how shall I put it, kekkeigenkais. Why don't you point those out plz, it was a logical analysis, I know it's not all true, it's my thoughts as I understand things. The last paragraph was theoretical but everything else is true. But what lies? what contradictions? What inaccuracies? What assumptions?

[Phixion]

Correction: Rinnegan can copy other 2 doujutsus, which are technically, how shall I put it, kekkeigenkais. Why don't you point those out plz, it was a logical analysis, I know it's not all true, it's my thoughts as I understand things. But what lies? what contradictions? What inaccuracies? What assumptions?

lolwut? When did that happen? And stop using colors for your text everytime ¬¬, it seems like you want to be more important than other members.

[Rokudaime Sennin ™]

lolwut? When did that happen? And stop using colors for your text everytime ¬¬, it seems like you want to be more important than other members.

Bah, first, it's my signature color, it makes it easier to read/distinguish during multiple quoting, & in the ask a question thread, guess I'm just too used to it by now, lol, the black seems too dull at times when there's a large wall of text.

Second, I think you misunderstood, I didn't say the rinnegan can copy doujutsus for it's own use, no evidence of that. Pain's shouten jutsu made copies of Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan, & Neji's Byakugan. I was simply using that example to counter Afro's reasoning, that sharingan is more ninjutsu than genjutsu, I was showing that the rinnegan has a far greater understanding of ninjutsu than the sharingan. And look, no colors this time, And I had to turn my sig off, cause my posts are too close to each other, lol.

[Sasuke_perez22]

here i have something do u think the Byakugan and sharingan are roots from the Rinnegan,and if you take out a byakugan and place it on top of the ultimate sharingan will bring you to the RINNEGAN ??????

[guy]

i think they are genetic variations of the rinnegan. first was the rinnegan, then that somehow they got the bykagun and then that mutated to the sharingan. the ems, is not a rinnegan but something else entirely.

[Sasuke_perez22]

here let me explain it the way i thought of it sharingan is a a form of the rin, but i'm guessing that all doujustu are decentives of the rin

i think they are genetic variations of the rinnegan. first was the rinnegan, then that somehow they got the bykagun and then that mutated to the sharingan. the ems, is not a rinnegan but something else entirely.

EXACTLY THATS WHAT I WAS TRY TO SAY, but i was merely saying if ther is a way to go back to the RIN