The God Debate

[paulbee]

God gave us free will, without it we'd be robots, pointless and unable to become god-like.

Imagine God, alone, in eternity before creation. God desired companionship of intelligent, interesting, and good beings. He could create them ready made like that, but if he did he'd just be making mind numbed robots or at best little copies of himself. That wasn't inteeresting.

In order to acheive his goal, his pet creation (us), had to have the potential to become like him (hence being made in his own image). Humans needed to be able to grow, learn, evolve, and make choices.

I think that God hoped/planned that through millenia of learning, trials, and development, a new race of man that was wise, and good will emerge. In the meanwhile those who are good (potentially), get to go to heaven to await the final fullfillment of God's plans.

BTW. There is nothing wrong with this thread. It is an opportunity for us to engage phillosophically. Also non-Christians can have their say as well. I fully support Hagane, the Ice Nomad's right to make this thread.

Why must discussing God be seen as a religious event?

[Hand Banana]

Why must discussing God be seen as a religious event?

Because different religions have different Gods.

[Binky]

Compared to His Old Testament days of laying waste to heathens, God in His modern day absentee father mode is really rather benevolent, I suppose that smiting arm got tired after a while. In any case, the litmus test of deific benevolence wouldn't be found on this mortal coil, where hardship, suffering and even death are merely transitory afflictions.

[paulbee]

Because different religions have different Gods.

What does that have to do with discussion?

God is also a matter of philosophy, not only just religion. Religion has to do with correctness of worship and faith, yet we can discuss God philosophically and intellectually from any viewpoint without touching on worshiping, and even having any faith at all.

[Hagane, the Ice Nomad]

Thanks for the support Paul. Also, we had a Religion thread?

[Aribelle]

I'm not that religious, but this is what I think on the matter:

If there weren't all these horrible things in the world then how would we be able to know what good is? If it weren't for hatred, we wouldn't know what love is, and visa-versa. It's two sides of the same coin and one cannot exist without the other...if God really did create violence and all the suffering humans go through on a daily basis, I think that it's so we could know and appreciate the opposites.

The other part of it is that, as others have said, we do have free will, so perhaps God figured that we were going to mess up eventually...and from my personal experiences it's when there's been the most turmoil in my life that I've realized how wonderful people really are.

[paulbee]

I'm not that religious, but this is what I think on the matter:

If there weren't all these horrible things in the world then how would we be able to know what good is? If it weren't for hatred, we wouldn't know what love is, and visa-versa. It's two sides of the same coin and one cannot exist without the other...if God really did create violence and all the suffering humans go through on a daily basis, I think that it's so we could know and appreciate the opposites.

The other part of it is that, as others have said, we do have free will, so perhaps God figured that we were going to mess up eventually...and from my personal experiences it's when there's been the most turmoil in my life that I've realized how wonderful people really are.

Word!

[Hand Banana]

What does that have to do with discussion?

God is also a matter of philosophy, not only just religion. Religion has to do with correctness of worship and faith, yet we can discuss God philosophically and intellectually from any viewpoint without touching on worshiping, and even having any faith at all.

Because he is specifically talking about a God from a specific religion.

[POW]

I've been going over this thought constantly for the past month...

HOW can God claim to be Omnipotent AND Benevolent at the same time? I mean, if he's so all-powerful and well-meaning, why is there hunger, war, disease, crime, and corruption in the world? I asked my mother this, and she went into some ranbling rant about how God is all-powerful and well-meaning simplybecause that's how he is, and I as a human am not meant to understand it yet.

Ready, Set, Discuss!
(Note, this is in reference to the God in Christianity)

The problem here is that trying to understand god by using religon is faulty from the start. Truth is we dont know god at best all we can do is come up with are theories on what god might be like.

This is where religon fails because the theory is only as accurate as the ability of the person(s) making is at analyzing information and an openess to accepting facts in an unbiased manner and trying to draw conclusions based on these.

If evidence suggests that the earth is millions of years old , religon ignores it and chooses to say earth is 6000 only because it says so in a book not that there is any evidence to back it up what so ever.


IMO if you want to understand god stop listening to all the self rightous know it alls of the world as they have no answers just alot of presumtious arrogance based on no facts other than what thier religon say.

- First its better to understand that nobody knows regardless of what they say.

- Second with that in mind its better to think for yourself and learn to draw your own conclusion than ask someone to give you the awnser that no one has as they can only give you thier opinion(theory).

- Third you can do so by paying attention to everything around you not just in your culture but learn to broaden your perspectives and observe , analyze & take in everything you can from the fine detail to the large and complex connective chains that bind things together.

- Forth know yourself as anyone paying close attention will notice poeple's percetion of god is really more a telling of thier own inner self. If they are insecure and see things in rigid black and white terms so to is thier perception of god and if they are open mined and logical so to is their perception. So the point to be weary of your own faults as this may help you to be a bit less biased in you perceptions.

[paulbee]

Makes no difference. He isn't arguing a mode of worship or even faith.

You can still discuss philosophically even in that context, A knowledgeable Muslim, or Buddhist can still contribute, maybe even provide a comparative view.

Anyway I tire of the endless back and forth, Ive given my opinion, and I respect your own, so I'm outta here.