The God Debate

[vidzey]

The Creation (not the Biblical one) was already proven as happened by the Big Bang Theory. There was already Something that facilitated the Creation, and thus the existence of this Creator is already proven.

Yes. But almighty science says an ant couldn't have created the Universe, so I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.

so, who/what is this creator you're talking about again? it does have an identity to identify itself from other things in this universe, does it? it may sound a bit like an old 7'' record but i think you're not getting my point.

if this god you're talking about really created this universe, what do you think triggered it? is it bored or something?

-----

while your argument states that "whatever created the universe must be god", mine was, "the universe was not created by anyone or anything, except that it created itself and that it is uncaused, eternal, and finite but unbounded".

so, whatever your definition of a god is, i still can't figure how/why did it created this universe.

[Archiel]

I wouldn't call it ridiculous . Just to play Devil's Advocate on myself, I'd call it convenient. I can never be wrong on the creation part, and I still call bollocks on parts of my religion I think are illogical, and keep to heart the philosophical part that makes sense.

Hmm, you do realise that you fail then don't you, let me explain. You don't fully believe in you religion, if you fully believed its scripture, everything it said whetever literally, symbolically or allegorically (but really just mainly literally) then you'd be truly religious, if you ran into someone who believed all of that, they'd call you a failure. On the flip side, it would be too much of me to call you a wholly rational and logical person...after all, you believe in god.

[kuroihikari]

so, who/what is this creator you're talking about again? it does have an identity to identify itself from other things in this universe, does it? it may sound a bit like an old 7'' record but i think you're not getting my point.

if this god you're talking about really created this universe, what do you think triggered it? is it bored or something?

-----

while your argument states that "whatever created the universe must be god", mine was, "the universe was not created by anyone or anything, except that it created itself and that it is uncaused, eternal, and finite but unbounded".

so, whatever your definition of a god is, i still can't figure how/why did it created this universe.

I understand your point, but it is quite out-of-our-time scientifically. If the Universe created itself then it is God, as I stated around four pages back. And even if that were so, we'd have to redefine our entire concept of what the universe is, because that event is simply impossible the way we define it right now. And you'd still have to ask yourself how/why did it create itself? There's really no difference.

[Hand Banana]

The thread isn't on topic. Infact it hasn't been since page two. The question was

HOW can God claim to be Omnipotent AND Benevolent at the same time?

So for those that are saying this isn't a religious thread, in fact it is being its talking about the God in Christianity faith. I pointed this out earlier but no one care. So I will point it out again.

I don't care how the universe was created because thats not the topic at hand. Don't care about science or the Big bang theory. This is the reason it should of been merged with the religious thread. Zidane has been on point.

[kuroihikari]

Hmm, you do realise that you fail then don't you, let me explain. You don't fully believe in you religion, if you fully believed its scripture, everything it said whetever literally, symbolically or allegorically (but really just mainly literally) then you'd be truly religious, if you ran into someone who believed all of that, they'd call you a failure. On the flip side, it would be too much of me to call you a wholly rational and logical person...after all, you believe in god.

Oh, the only reason my belief of God is not "wholly rational and logical" is because there's already bias on your part against people who do believe in God. And I can't really blame you for that. However, if you really think about it, it doesn't have a whole lot of flaws.

Oh, and I don't have a problem with the religious not calling me "truly religious", all that matters to me about my religion is that I'm pretty sure that if this God has indeed some afterlife prepared for all of us, I won't get the bad part.

@HB
Zidane wasn't on point. He was turning it into a Bible discussion between atheists against theists, and that is not on-topic. What it really should have gone into was a debate between different religions about their different descriptions of God's personality, which I immediately pointed out in my first post.

Since it degenerated into a God does not exist/exists thread anyway, I suggested that this stay entirely non-religious.

[Archiel]

Oh, the only reason my belief of God is not "wholly rational and logical" is because there's already bias on your part against people who do believe in God. And I can't really blame you for that. However, if you really think about it, it doesn't have a whole lot of flaws.

Ima sit here while you explain to me the whole rational part of belief in god's existence, don't worry, I can wait...

[kuroihikari]

Ima sit here while you explain to me the whole rational part of belief in god's existence, don't worry, I can wait...

I just explained it in multiple posts... I don't want to type it out again.

[Archiel]

The thread isn't on topic. Infact it hasn't been since page two. The question was
So for those that are saying this isn't a religious thread, in fact it is being its talking about the God in Christianity faith. I pointed this out earlier but no one care. So I will point it out again.

I don't care how the universe was created because thats not the topic at hand. Don't care about science or the Big bang theory. This is the reason it should of been merged with the religious thread. Zidane has been on point.

Heres the damn answer

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus

Now go away HB




Anyways, Kuro, I can't be bothered reading but I will say that by the very definition of religion, logic and rationality are thrown out the window for blind faith, and religious dogma.

[kuroihikari]

Anyways, Kuro, I can't be bothered reading but I will say that by the very definition of religion, logic and rationality are thrown out the window for blind faith, and religious dogma.

Yeah, logic and rationality are thrown out by unquestioning belief in religion, but they aren't necessarily thrown out by a belief in a God.

[Hand Banana]

Heres the damn answer

“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?”

-Epicurus

Now go away HB




Anyways, Kuro, I can't be bothered reading but I will say that by the very definition of religion, logic and rationality are thrown out the window for blind faith, and religious dogma.

And then you derail the thread again. It seems like you should open (tho I doubt you will do it) another thread for the belief/existence of God. Because whats being argued isn't even the topic of the thread. Its amazing tho when I derail a thread I get grief but anyone else does it, its justified.

Going back to my old ways.