View Poll Results: Do you believe that kishi used christian references in his manga?

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  • Yes

    19 16.24%
  • No

    69 58.97%
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  1. #11
    Curbside Prophet Mikessc88's Avatar
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    No I dont, all stories can be related to each other in one way or another. Its probably best to find what makes each story different than to spend time making weird connections. Thats my 2 cents XD




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  2. #12
    This Machine Pwns n00bs Amargo Deathscythe's Avatar
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    lol dude you took my observation and went to mars with it lol but its well researched and actually makes sense to an extent lol

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  3. #13
    Kishimoto actually used references when making Naruto? Holy crap.

  4. #14
    J.A.C. ****** Mister Death's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ninjastik View Post
    Kishimoto actually used references when making Naruto? Holy crap.
    I doubt that kishi would be able to keep track of all the supposed relation to the Christianity that the op wrote,.....

  5. #15
    Mind f*cked beyond repair Stev3child's Avatar
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    This was cool xD. It is similar, and that is one thing Naruto has with so many other works of fiction. DBZ, Bleach, Cristianity, Buddism, pop culture referencing, and other things. Maybe we should make a "Find as much comparisons with other things to Naruto" thread. I remember I made an Itachi/Frieza one, and others made DBZ ones aswell. Now we got the religious references. So now I say: What else?
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  6. #16
    Cockney Geezer
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    I can't see any correlation with Naruto with Jesus.

    Jesus died on the cross, and gathered followers because he was the predicted saviour of the world. Naruto hasn't died as yet, so to say that it has a Christian theme is extremely far fetched.

    Christianity's pivotal point is the Cross. That Jesus rose again from the dead, and his blood washes away our sins so that we can be forgiven.

    And also Jesus taught in the Synagogues as a kid, Naruto is just being a kid when he was a kid.

    And the whole walking on water... nah....


    It's all wrong on the Theology side of things, Philosophically there are a lot similarities. Because they both attempt to tackle Human Fallibility, however the solution so far seems distant from each other.

  7. #17
    Senior Member zeroLT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by •Rokudaime Sennin• ™ View Post
    As we all know, kishi has a unique and interesting way to include various mythologies from Japanese religions into his manga. For example, his use of the three gods from shinto religion Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, and Susanoo, and also his use of the samsara's 6 spoked wheel from buddhism, represented by the six paths, God realm, human realm, demon realm, hungry ghost realm, animal realm, and hell realm. This thread delves into the possibility that kishi's also using Christian dogma but to a much greater extent as it is underpins the roles of many of the important characters.

    http://img407.imageshack.us/my.php?i...narutotext.jpg

    As you can see in the pic above, Naruto has combined his sage mode along with kyubi chakra. His eyes have changed accordingly, the horizontal line from the sage mode, along with the longer vertical line from kyubi chakra, come together to form a true cross. This implies that Naruto is Jesus. Of course he can walk on water right?

    http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp...r-of-david.gif
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/402/17/

    If you look at Sasuke's mangekyou sharingan, it clearly resembles the jewish star of david. That would make Sasuke a jew, and Naruto being Jesus, one would come to the conclusion that Sasuke will be responsible for Naruto's death. Actually No, since we all know that there's no chance of Naruto dying in this manga, this cannot be, so what is the true meaning behind this?

    Let me tell you the story all the way back from the beginning of konoha's founding, Madara style. Now everything doesn't follow true historical accounts as timelines are off and many of the important characters have a dual role in this manga. That's because kishi likes to add his own touches to any mythology he uses.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/398/17/

    Before there were any ninja villages, there used to be dozens, if not hundreds of clans fighting for power and to rule over the others. These clans represent many of the jewish tribes a couple centuries before the birth of christ, who were fighting each other and outside forces. The uchiha and Senju are both jewish. They combine forces to form what becomes the fire nation (Israel), and settle in a village called konoha, which represents Jerusalem. The leader they choose is Hashirama who is representing king solomon. Madara, the leader of the other faction is said to be killed by hashirama but his fate remains unknown. Madara, prior to becoming the leader of the uchihas had made a pact with the devil, when he gained the eternal mangekyou sharingan, Madara sold his soul which gave him the ability to prolong his life. Madara isn't exactly satan, but he's heavily influenced by him, as he keeps popping up throughout different times to set off certain chain of events.

    Fast forward to Madara unleashing the kyubi on konoha 16 years ago. This was confirmed by Minato.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/440/10/

    The senjus are no longer jews because after witnessing the miracles of the yellow flash, they start to believe that he is their messiah, thus they can now be called christians. Minato was the first coming of Jesus. He sacrificed his life for the sins of konoha. As you can see Madara has multiple roles to play, he now represents the head priest of the jews (uchihas) who was indirectly responsible for Minato's (Jesus) death. For this reason the hatred towards uchihas is immense. Every one believes that the uchihas are a cursed clan and must be wiped off the face of the earth, they are resented for the power they possess, the mangekyou sharigan. Every1 throughtout modern history has hatred towards the jews, either for no apparent reason or cause of the fact that they controlled many of the powerful banks and industry which were integral to people's lives and therefore whoever had control had power. The uchihas are the scum of the ninja world, much like the jews are referred to as the scum of the earth.

    Then comes along Itachi, a self hating Jew who wipes off most of the jews off the earth. Itachi represents hitler who killed 6 million people, hitler was thought to be jewish who couldn't stand his own heritage. Sry Itachi fans. Bear with me.

    Jiraiya plays the role of John the baptist, the mentor to Jesus, (minato & naruto)

    All of the recent events that have taken place are leading up to a war to end all wars meaning Armageddon. As the angels blow their trumpets, different parts of the prophecy begin to unfold until everything is ready for Jesus's arrival. The bijuu represent the multiple headed demons that are unleashed upon the world after the first trumpet blows, but instead of multiple heads, kishi made it into multiple tails.

    Now fast forward to the present. Naruto (second Jesus) has multiple tasks he must accomplish, his first job is to keep the demon fox in check, just as the forces of good working for Jesus will defeat the demons. There's a 4th ninja war brewing, (armageddon) which Naruto must win before he can continue on to final tasks.
    Naruto as the second coming of Jesus, has to bring the shinobi world to salvation and Sasuke, who is naruto's rival, representing the anti-christ is a pawn of Madara (who's working for satan) and is hellbent on destruction and stopping Naruto from accomplishing his goal. Sasuke who is Madara's descendant is akin to the jews living in Israel today. The book of revelations states that this time, Jesus will not be as merciful, and will only allow those who believe in him, the passage to his heavenly kingdom. All jews who don't believe will go to hell. Sasuke who is on a path that will clash against Naruto pretty soon must make a choice, he either has to redeem himself by asking for Naruto's forgiveness or he'll be defeated and most likely killed by Naruto.

    Prior to the apocalypse, the four horsemen were released upon the ninja world. These horsemen are represented by none other than Itachi, Oro, Kabuchimaru, and Nagato.

    Itachi symbolizes the horseman of war, as he controls Susanoo, the god of war. How ironic, the horseman of war who hates war.

    Oro symbolizes the horseman of famine, as he loots, destroys, causes chaos for his own pleasure.

    kabuchimaru symbolizes the horseman of pestilence, well cause he's a fuckin pest who won't die. seriously i hate kabuto.

    Nagato symbolizes the most powerful and most feared horseman. The 4th horseman called death, aka the grim reaper. Seriously look at him, he's only a few more weeks away without food from looking exactly like the grim reaper. According to the book of revelations, the 4th horseman also brings along his friend, the 5th horseman from hell. This is the king of hell enma which Nagato controls and uses to bring dead corpses back to life to do his bidding.

    Nagato also has a dual role, he's not only the 4th horseman, but he also represents the false prophet that will rise up along with the anti-christ. Nagato was thought to be the chosen one who will usher in an era of peace, but we all know that Naruto is the real chosen one.

    The 4 horseman aren't necessarily evil, they're doing what they love to do, but they're all part of god's plans.

    Summary: Naruto is compassionate, merciful, and cross-eyed, all qualities that Jesus possesses. And he is learning how to forgive, when he finally forgives Nagato, something that Jesus preached. But when the time comes, even this kind hearted Naruto will kick ass. He is the one who must stop Sasuke, then after he defeats Sasuke, he can either save him or kill him. But that choice will be up to Sasuke if he's willing to redeem himself.

    You all can lol, or discuss the serious religious connotations behind this thread. But plz do respond. If ya got some more cool ideas about this, add to it, i'll edit later

    Important note: I'm not anti-semitic, sincerely sorry if i offended any1, jewish or christian alike, this was just a fun thread along with some interesting tidbits, i know it's not as epic as one of gameboy's threads, but I tried. I'm gonna go post it on Narutofan forums and piss off some hardcore sasuke fans, lol
    LOL, no he isnt jesus, Jesus was more of a demi-god and naruto is more of a punk.

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  8. #18
    Vorpal Chestertonian BillDoors's Avatar
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    This is what literary criticism and analysis is about, finding themes and symbols and then drawing connections with them in ways that aren't immediately obvious (even to the original author). That said, overt allegorical meaning behind identifiable symbols in this particular manga stretches credibility beyond the plausible. If Kishimoto has any religion to him, it is almost certainly a sort of agnostic syncretism, like most modern Japanese - in other words, he doesn't have anything to say one way or another in the argument for or against the existence of God or the tenets of Christianity, but he may find certain of the implicit and explicit tenets of Christianity to be useful or appealing in constructing the morality of his characters. Its sort of the opposite of what Hideaki Anno did in Evangelion with all of the explicitly Christian imagery that ultimately wasn't symbolic of anything - the imagery probably isn't there, but maybe some of the meaning is.

    So, no - I don't think any of the symbols the original poster identified are meaningful in the way he thinks they are, but I also don't think he's wrong in identifying the underlying morality of the series as having some Christian undertones. Aside from writing "children's books," J.R.R. Tolkien was also something of a literary theorist and Christian apologist. Arguing from the assumption of the truth of the Christian religion (specifically orthodox Catholicism), he posited that all stories and myths everywhere, regardless of the cultural context, ultimately reflect on a sort of universal "fairy story" of creation, fallen man, and his ultimate redemption ("fairy story" doesn't imply it being impossible or untrue, but rather that the story is fantastical in nature occurring beyond the limited scope of the mundane). Even cultures with myths superficially similar to the Judeo-Christian picture of reality anticipated, at an almost sub-conscious or instinctive level, the true story of God's relationship with his creation as told by various prophets and apostles. Your mileage may vary, of course, but what he was arguing was that attempting to depict universal issues such as good and evil intrinsically reflects on a kind of universal-archetype that transcends cultures and undermines artificial social constructions, because Truth is Immutable and all people everywhere yearn for it. I haven't done a great job of conveying Tolkien's meaning here, but I'm just pointing out that there is such a school of thought which supports some of your claims about meaning in this manga. Other writers who cover similar topics are C.S. Lewis in his Mere Christianity (though the theological underpinnings of that one are, by Lewis' own admission, a little shaky) and G.K. Chesterton in The Everlasting Man (I highly recommend *anything* by Chesterton - if nothing else, this was a man who knew how to make his readers laugh).

    Of course, Postmodernists and Deconstructionists call "bullsh*t" on all of this. They would call this kind of reading of themes and images to be an imposition of one's own cultural and moral context onto the author's work, and nothing more. They wouldn't disagree with you, because meaning is relative when it is not totally inscrutable - if anything, they might describe this kind of analysis to be partially deconstructionist. As I said before, your mileage may vary. I personally disagree with a lot of Jacques Derridas' assumptions about what a critic can and can't do with a text, but Deconstructionist theory holds a lot of currency in modern academia.

    ...so what were we talking about again?
    Last edited by BillDoors; 04-23-2009 at 03:41 AM. Reason: clarity
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  9. #19
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I'll grant the Messianic aspect of Naruto, but I doubt Kishimoto had Jesus in mind. The same messiah theme can be found in almost every Shonen Manga including DBZ.

    If Kishi were actually modeling Naruto as a type of Jesus, then putting a Demon inside him would be the height of fail.

    By the way Revelations does not portray the Jews going to hell en mas, I think it actually foretells mass salvation as they come to recognise their Messiah for who he is.

    I really think Kishi's just having fun telling stories and making a whole bunch of money.

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  10. #20
    Silent-ish stewchan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ng.jimmy View Post
    I can't see any correlation with Naruto with Jesus.

    Jesus died on the cross, and gathered followers because he was the predicted saviour of the world. Naruto hasn't died as yet, so to say that it has a Christian theme is extremely far fetched.

    Christianity's pivotal point is the Cross. That Jesus rose again from the dead, and his blood washes away our sins so that we can be forgiven.

    And also Jesus taught in the Synagogues as a kid, Naruto is just being a kid when he was a kid.

    And the whole walking on water... nah....


    EDIT: Jesus was known as King of the Jews before he died, guessing Naruto wont die until he becomes Hokage but thats just speculation on my part

    It's all wrong on the Theology side of things, Philosophically there are a lot similarities. Because they both attempt to tackle Human Fallibility, however the solution so far seems distant from each other.
    Hate to get on the band wagon but I do see references showing in what has been said.

    As for the ressurection that MAY be portayed IF the kyuubi gets extracted from Naruto and he gets up to live again like Gaara.

    Its not that the lifes of Jesus are supposed to be the same just on a parallel path. Jesus spoke and was guided by the voice of God, not God him/herself, just like Jiraiya and Kakashi were the guides for Naruto. It's not exact or to be looked at exact, yet you have to give credit to the similarities

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