The OFFICIAL Bitch About Bleach Thread

[Sandro cères]

After reading this far, you should know that "captain-level" these days mean very little :/ Ichigo is "captain-level" too, and yet he barely got enemies as Grimmjow even with an additional power boost from his mask, while Hitsugaya, arguebly one of the weaker captains, won over the third Espada, even adding that Hitsugaya had the upper hand in that fight. Having the upper hand cannot make such a great strength leap by itself. They fought more or less evently before Halibel released.

U are forgetting that Ichigo should have quite the same reiatsu as Aizen's:
1) when he used the Houggyoku he said "we can use it half-awakened just by letting it be one with someone who has double captain's reiatsu" so he has that power
2) Ichigo with half reiatsu has the same power of captains as said by 4th division's captain "I don't remember the name"
Talking about a common level of the captains is quite unusefull because everyone is different and, most of them, have less reiatsu than Ichigo's but they seem to be able to rivals powerer Arrancar

I hope U understand what I wrote

[DonMegaPLP]

I wanted to chim in a long time ago but I didnt see the point of it. Bleach is an impressive and wonderful creation and piece of work any author would commend... but the sheer amount of aplot holes in it is maddening. I do want an end to the story, but at the same time there are so many unexplained instances... here are a few.

Ichigo Vs Renji (1)
Remember during their fight he started randomly blasting off spirit energy? At one point he wasnt even acting normally. He went straight Kenpachi on us, a berserker,huge crazy smile and weird dotty villian-like eyes. Think you could say he did it back when he forced the Gillian back to the Hueco Mundo during his first encounter with Ishida, though that might have been the first instance he used his Getsuga Tensho.

Isshin Kurasaki and Ryuuken (2 Ishida's father, spelled his name wong)
...yeah, do I have to really get into this mystery? No, back story, no explaination or even motive.

Chad (3)
Whats the deal behind his powers? Kubo started to get into it, then abandonned us on the reasoning... And I'm disappointed, I wanted a Yammi rematch.

Zero Squad (4)
No information outside of them being "Royal Guard" that captains are promoted to. Does Isshin have a connection to this? And there's a Spirit King and Royal Family?! WHERE?! Need more, want more...

Aizen(5)
what the hell is he?! where did he come from?! Everything has a beginning. Perhaps during his death he'll have flashbacks that will shed light on it.

...There are more complaints and questions but this were the most prevalent in my mind. Kubo's biggest problem outside of plot holes is the fact that he doesnt cover enough material in one chapter. Things take way too long to get done.

[Silent Assassin]

Chad (3)
Whats the deal behind his powers? Kubo started to get into it, then abandonned us on the reasoning... And I'm disappointed, I wanted a Yammi rematch.

This pissed me of too. I wanted to see that fight aswell. TK really do fukin need to go more into his story

[Sandro cères]

Chad (3)
Whats the deal behind his powers? Kubo started to get into it, then abandonned us on the reasoning... And I'm disappointed, I wanted a Yammi rematch

This pissed me of too. I wanted to see that fight aswell. TK really do fukin need to go more into his story

I wouldn't. Chad will lose his life in ahlf a second or it will be very strange: Ichigo's overwhelming power is quite the same of Espada's and so it is Chad's one?! No no, it's impossible

Zero Squad (4)
No information outside of them being "Royal Guard" that captains are promoted to. Does Isshin have a connection to this? And there's a Spirit King and Royal Family?! WHERE?! Need more, want more...

Aizen(5)
what the hell is he?! where did he come from?! Everything has a beginning. Perhaps during his death he'll have flashbacks that will shed light on it

I have never thought about that possibility (4) but it would be wonderfull knowing something more.
About Aizen I think exatly the same as U

[LeaT]

U are forgetting that Ichigo should have quite the same reiatsu as Aizen's:
1) when he used the Houggyoku he said "we can use it half-awakened just by letting it be one with someone who has double captain's reiatsu" so he has that power
2) Ichigo with half reiatsu has the same power of captains as said by 4th division's captain "I don't remember the name"
Talking about a common level of the captains is quite unusefull because everyone is different and, most of them, have less reiatsu than Ichigo's but they seem to be able to rivals powerer Arrancar

I hope U understand what I wrote

And you come up with that conclusion how? And what has the Hogukyoku to do with Ichigo's power level? And comparison of power levels is very well doable when the two characters we are comparing have either 1) fought each other or 2) fought the same enemies or 3) fought enemies that follow a clear ranking system. I do not see how Ichigo can have the same reiatsu as Aizen since 1) they have fought each other, it is clear that Ichigo is inferior to Aizen and 2) Captains who are considered far more skilled and stronger were defeated by Aizen.

[[CiTo]]

And you come up with that conclusion how? And what has the Hogukyoku to do with Ichigo's power level? And comparison of power levels is very well doable when the two characters we are comparing have either 1) fought each other or 2) fought the same enemies or 3) fought enemies that follow a clear ranking system. I do not see how Ichigo can have the same reiatsu as Aizen since 1) they have fought each other, it is clear that Ichigo is inferior to Aizen and 2) Captains who are considered far more skilled and stronger were defeated by Aizen.

Not that I agree with that other guy, but you can't factor in the bold without considering the effects of kyoka suigetsu.

[Chaos Shepherd]

Ichigo may almost have as much reiatsu as aizen now, but the main reason he struggles with espada while other captains were doing better would probably be battle experience/training.. Just because you have a lot of power doesnt mean you know how to use it. He cant even use kidoh or w/e, which aizen is godly at that too. He also has been with his zanpakuto longer than ichigo, so he is probably better off there.

[LeaT]

Not that I agree with that other guy, but you can't factor in the bold without considering the effects of kyoka suigetsu.

Even not factoring Kyoka Suigetsu, it is clear many captains we consider to be of top class were outmatched by Aizen (for example when Shinji released).

Ichigo may almost have as much reiatsu as aizen now, but the main reason he struggles with espada while other captains were doing better would probably be battle experience/training.. Just because you have a lot of power doesnt mean you know how to use it. He cant even use kidoh or w/e, which aizen is godly at that too. He also has been with his zanpakuto longer than ichigo, so he is probably better off there.

Not that you saw Toshiro ever using kido against Halibel either.

Ichigo is always matched up against enemies where he doesn't have to use kido to get away. I still don't see how you can reach the conclusion that Ichigo would have the same reiatsu as Aizen, because reiatsu = power level in Bleach.

[Chaos Shepherd]

I was just saying that reiatsu isnt everything.. Kenpachi has a shitload and he lost to ichigo.. if you can call it that. I never said you needed to use kidoh, but it sure helps. Aizen uses it all the time, so does byakuya. They might not really ever need to, but it helps them.

I think people came to the conclusion that they have the same based on what aizen said. He said something like combining 2x the reiastu of a normal captiain with the hougakyu (SP?) will release the barrier for a couple seconds and allows him to use it. Hes imlying himself that he as about 2x more reiatsu than a normal captian. I dont see any reason why would who hold back for something like that. Then, unohana in the garganta said something like ichigo about has the reiatsu of a captain, and ichigo was only at half his reiatsu, putting him at about 2x more reiatsu than a captain.

Obviously, the levels are going to vary quite a bit.. where aizen will probably have more reiatsu. But its still relatively close, if you think about it. Why would either of them lie in those types of situations? The only thing i dont get is, it seems like aizen has 5x the reiatsu of a captain, still. Thats where the fluctuation of captain-level reiatsu probably comes in. Unohana probably thinking of a weaker captain, while aizen thinking of a strongest, because of the type of people they are.

So it could be that ichigo is really like 1.75x reiatsu of a captain, while aizen is 2.5x or something.. :-/ But the point is ichigo should be somewhat close... closer than other captains anyways..

*Edit* That was when aizen was making wonderweiss that he said such a thing.. Although i cant quite remember where it is the manga. :-/ Hopefully its not another anime only thing... lol but i thought it was in manga.

[LeaT]

We do not know for a certainty how much reiatsu Aizen can possess in reality. The Hogukyoku required more reiatsu than two captains to fully awaken, but it doesn't mean that Aizen can only have that much. He can have far more than that. He was merely boasting that he said he possessed that much reiatsu, and again, captain level =/= good measurement.

If we for example consider captain level to be about as strong as Renji is now, then Ichigo far outmatches that several times over, even during his weakest state, remember that a healed Renji couldn't match Yammi but Ichigo easily knocked him into the ground where he was, according to himself, about half of his full potential.

Aizen moved so fast he could touch Ichigo's chest without Ichigo even being close to react, very similar to when he stopped Zangetsu with his finger. To say that their power levels would be the same or even close would thus be a lie, because it's simply impossible. If Aizen is faster than Ichigo, then it doesn't simply boil down to shunpo skill, since we know that Ichigo for example is more skilled at using shunpo and faster at using shunpo than Byakuya, a captain who is known for his great shunpo skills (always being second to Yoruichi only). If Aizen would be just a little stronger, then Ichigo would still be able to follow him, like he did during the Ulquiorra encounter, even though Ulquiorra still outmatched him easily.