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  1. #821
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Oh, cheer up paul, just because they can't sense Ginjou's energy, doesn't really mean that he is dead (at least his soul), especially when the creator of an untraceable gigai appeared at the scene and all the other people who cared for him (and were at the scene) were practically unconscious. It should be mentioned that if he was in his real body - thus a living human - then after death, his soul might have just came out of it and was put in one of Urahara's gigai to make everyone think that he is dead (when was the last time that someone died from a cut like that in Bleach ?).

    Perhaps this way, he still would release all of the Fullbringers of their need to repay him, or something , yet it still could be said that his life full of vengeance, meant for only vengeance, was over . This would allow for his full story (just a flashback ) to be revealed, by which we would enter in to the Ishin's past. Let's not forget that supposedly, there is still one chapter left, to close this arc - seeing as this is a Lost Agent arc, the arc should end by finding and dealing with him .



  2. #822
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Honestly (I swear to...actually I don't swear) I can't for the life of me see how or where you guys saw this. I certainly didn't read it.

    What I saw in Ginjo's final moments was a Man who believed in the righteousness of his cause, and who found it incredulous that Ichigo saw things differently, even though his circumstances were identical. Never mind that Ginjo had harmed Ichigo's friends, mentally raped Ichigo, and Mind assaulted Ichigo's sisters.

    I saw Ginjo as a Man who thought Ichigo was looking down on him, belittling the righteousness of his cause. I just could not see someone who wanted to be put down. Now Riruka on the other hand did see things that way. She had come to disapprove of Ginjo's Lawless disregard for innocents in his Crusade against SS.

    Anyway, it's all good. Literature sometimes has this effect on people where everyone draws different conclusions from the same text.
    Fair enough. I saw Ginjo as a tragic character. That's where his progression went in the end albeit quite rushed, and tragic characters have to die otherwise they aren't tragic.

    Wikipedia writes this about the tragic hero:
    Aristotle established his view of what makes a tragic hero in his Book Poetics. Aristotle suggests that a hero of a tragedy must evoke in the audience a sense of pity or fear, saying, “the change of fortune presented must not be the spectacle of a virtuous man brought from prosperity to adversity."[1] He establishes the concept that the emotion of pity stems not from a person becoming better but when a person receives undeserved misfortune and fear comes when the misfortune befalls a man like us. This is why Aristotle points out the simple fact that, “The change of fortune should be not from bad to good, but, reversely, from good to bad.” Aristotle also establishes that the hero has to be “virtuous” that is to say he has to be ‘a morally blameless man” (article 82).

    Aristotle contests that the tragic hero has to be a man “who is not eminently good and just, yet whose misfortune is brought about not by vice or depravity, but by some error or frailty.” He is not making the hero entirely good in which he can do no wrong but rather has the hero committing an injury or a great wrong leading to his misfortune. Aristotle is not contradicting himself saying that the hero has to be virtuous and yet not eminently good. Being eminently good is a moral specification to the fact that he is virtuous.[2] He still has to be to some degree good. Aristotle adds another qualification to that of being virtuous but not entirely good when he says, “He must be one who is highly renowned and prosperous.” He goes on to give examples such as Oedipus and Thyestes.”
    tl;dr Ginjo was just misunderstood XD No idea if this quote from Wikipedia makes it easier for you to see Ginjo's character differently. He wanted to do good but everything he did just turned out bad and it drove him insane. His intentions were never really malicious per se. I think maybe part of the problem why you have issues seeing this is because we indeed got no Ginjo flashback when we got to see him as "sane". Ginjo was already unstable when he met Ichigo, ergo the eye slashing for example and him saying that he'd make a clichéd villain. I think this already hinted at Ginjo's current mental state. I do pity him though, as he could never idealize his goal because someone else did it for him. When that was revealed that was also when he had to die, it was the climax of his tragedy.

    Anyway, typical Kubo fashion villain writing, nevertheless. He has a knack (and he is good at it) for making complex villains that are never villains just because. In a way all of his major villains have been tragic characters.

    More tragedy stuff for those curious:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy
    Last edited by LeaT; 01-01-2012 at 12:06 AM.
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  3. #823
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Does Bleach come back next week, or the one after it ?



  4. #824
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Does Bleach come back next week, or the one after it ?
    No Bleach next week, I think.

    Btw, I absolutely love your sig, now u gotta tell me, what's it from?

  5. #825
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Has it not been 3 weeks or is this the 3rd (last week of no Bleach)
    FOOLS!!!!!


    Favorite Manga/Anime Characters
    Naruto, Orochimaru, Jariya, Itachi, Ichigo, Mayuri, Kenpachi, Mugen, Vash the Stampede, "L", Edward Elric, Reborn, Rokudo Mukuro, Black Star, Dr. Fraken Stein, Death the Kid

  6. #826
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    Manga stream says it'll be back next week with it being the final arc. http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news...nter-final-arc

    *can see daz now rejoicing*
    *can see jaiden doing the opposite*
    Hey baby, wanna take a gander at some Adam West penis?

  7. #827
    Konjiki Ashisogi Jizō Daemon Spade's Avatar
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    Dude, you just unknowingly ruined my day. First Naruto and now Bleach too. I swear if Hitman Reborn goes into its final arc after this current one, I will be one sad guy.
    FOOLS!!!!!


    Favorite Manga/Anime Characters
    Naruto, Orochimaru, Jariya, Itachi, Ichigo, Mayuri, Kenpachi, Mugen, Vash the Stampede, "L", Edward Elric, Reborn, Rokudo Mukuro, Black Star, Dr. Fraken Stein, Death the Kid

  8. #828
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    If it helps any, the arrancar arc was about 50 years long.
    Hey baby, wanna take a gander at some Adam West penis?

  9. #829
    Serial Killer Next Door LeaT's Avatar
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    Not 50 years long. The arrancar arc started in 2005 and ended in 2009 if you count The Lust, although not all do because we already segmented into Fake Karakura and Turn Back the Pendulum, so in a strict sense it ended in 2008 already.

    And new Bleach chapter out next week. This week was the last omake. I also want to emphasize that the new arc will last roughly 9 years, so why are you so sad? Bleach has run for 10 years already (11 if you count this year), so 9 more years is the double amount of Bleach, pretty much. You guys get too hung up on the word "final". Like I wrote in the other thread, it's not like we couldn't see this coming. It was bound to happen at some point and Kubo has already informed us that he had 2-3 arcs left to tell, being The Lost Agent arc, Isshin's backstory and the Royal Realm. We've had one so 2 more to go, told in one large arc, like how it's possible to see the Arrancar arc, Turn Back the Pendulum, Fake Karakura, The Lust and Deicide as one large arc.
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  10. #830
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    @ Leat the point of me exaggerating the amount of time was to put emphasis on the length of one arc. And reassure him that this arc would be at least a few years long if the arrancar arc was 4 years as you said.
    Hey baby, wanna take a gander at some Adam West penis?

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