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  1. #6071
    Senior Member Airicks's Avatar
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    So the Leaf gets paid for mission the higher level mission cost more and get higher level ninja to do them - it seem like ALL the higher Chuunin and Jounin are pretty well off (like Shikamaru's parents house is quite big, and really all the older ninja have big houses)..

    So do Ninja get paid for doing missions? I know Naruto basically lived for free growing up (as he should considering who his parents were and what they did) but surely the village doesn't give out houses/etc since some Ninja are apart of clans which seem to own their own land with their own laws..

    If ninja are paid I'm assuming it's based on rank+mission level, which leaves me curious about Naruto because he's technically still a Genin (which I think is bullshit.. he's the strongest Ninja in the Leaf and saved the village, being trained by a Sannin should auto rank him above Genin - he should be above the Chuunin exam) so is he getting paid for fighting in the war/saving the village?
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  2. #6072
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Airicks View Post
    If ninja are paid I'm assuming it's based on rank+mission level, which leaves me curious about Naruto because he's technically still a Genin (which I think is bullshit.. he's the strongest Ninja in the Leaf and saved the village, being trained by a Sannin should auto rank him above Genin - he should be above the Chuunin exam) so is he getting paid for fighting in the war/saving the village?
    It's a given that ninjas are compensated in some way, shape, or form for doing missions. Naruto gets money to buy Ichiraku Ramen all the time from somewhere, after all.

    And no, Naruto's not getting paid to fight in the war. Being that it's a ninja world war, he has no choice but to fight.

  3. #6073
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    I just reread the fight between sasuke and itachi. From the context we now have with the numerous developments since then; i see a few interesting things in retrospect.

    First, sasuke did not simply overcome itach's tsukiyomi. Zetsu made the claim from his point of view but tsukiyomi broke when orochimaru's power began to emerge. Orochimaru busted sasuke out of jail. Accessing the cursed seal in a low chakra state was the trigger.

    Second, and this plays into a few "what ifs" regarding long haired masked man and short haired masked man/tobi and zetsu. Itachi could detect the presence if the long haired masked which was supposedly an amazing feat to accomplish. Anyway, zetsu was hiding in the ceiling during the exchange if genjutsu and up through the fight's climactic amaterasu. I believe itachi could detect zetsu but pretended not to. What's the point? Well as much as it seemingly doesn't matter it possibly puts another tie down between tobi and zetsu's proper identities.

    Third, after sasuke's grand dragon fire technique drained him if his final amount of regular chakra he, as we all know, called power from a "natural " lightning strike. I believe now that was foreshadowing a greater relationship soon to come between sasuke and natural energy. He will have either a sage mode or a use of natural energy on par with sage mode that is not a cursed seal.

    Lastly, itachi explains a simple timeline regarding madara. It was worded very carefully but it is somewhat insightful when tempting to guess when madara died and when became the personaluty of tobi. His timeline is not to be taken too literally since kishi wants to keep secrets but words it so its true in technical sense yet with double meaning.

    Now for a question, do you think itachi could have killed madara? Itachi explains that madara was alive and well for a time that overlaps both uchiha massacre and itachi's own membership in akatsuki before before stating he is a pathetic shell. Madara may have already parted with his rinnegan (given to nagato) or perhaps he had it during the time itachi joined akatsuki. Hell, it's probable that the use of rinnegan itself took a lethal toll on madara but sure enough, madara did not have hashirama enhancements. That fact coupled with his likely aging, i believe it likely that itachi was capable of defeating him (which is one way to theorize madara's time of death considering the appearances of the long haired masked man and when they occurred) and did so. Now i know it raises serious issues with tobi and itachi's continued involvement with akatsuki but it also plays a serious point to itachi protecting sasuke and konaha. Itachi can't take on all the members of akatsuki at once (if he were to also kill tobi for instance, he'd be retaliated upon) but he could possibly end madara without getting caught (he likely had his trust), partly derail his sinister plot and continue to play his secret role from within akatsuki. Madara knew of sasuke (if he was indeed the long haired masked man) and he also knew itachi had the mangekyo (with tsukiyomi, *moons eye plan cough caught*. Madara would recognize the strong EMS potential between them as brothers. Go back to the itachi sasuke fight and read itachi's lecture on Ms and EMS. The points made there make it so that madara can not be allowed to live if he wants to keep sasuke safe. And before you ask, no, itachi did not need to mention to sasuke or ANYBODY that he killed original madara bcause not only is it totally unnecessary for him to do so, it will be so much more dramatic to hear it from madata's own mouth, especially if he encounters sasuke while still an edo!

    Do you think itachi could have ended to original madara?

    P.s. i am not an itachi fanboy, i just appreciate that much is tempting when given through the character.
    Last edited by knife eater; 08-06-2012 at 01:54 PM.
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  4. #6074
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    I just reread the fight between sasuke and itachi. From the context we now have with the numerous developments since then; i see a few interesting things in retrospect.

    First, sasuke did not simply overcome itach's tsukiyomi. Zetsu made the claim from his point of view but tsukiyomi broke when orochimaru's power began to emerge. Orochimaru busted sasuke out of jail. Accessing the cursed seal in a low chakra state was the trigger.

    Second, and this plays into a few "what ifs" regarding long haired masked man and short haired masked man/tobi and zetsu. Itachi could detect the presence if the long haired masked which was supposedly an amazing feat to accomplish. Anyway, zetsu was hiding in the ceiling during the exchange if genjutsu and up through the fight's climactic amaterasu. I believe itachi could detect zetsu but pretended not to. What's the point? Well as much as it seemingly doesn't matter it possibly puts another tie down between tobi and zetsu's proper identities.

    Third, after sasuke's grand dragon fire technique drained him if his final amount of regular chakra he, as we all know, called power from a "natural " lightning strike. I believe now that was foreshadowing a greater relationship soon to come between sasuke and natural energy. He will have either a sage mode or a use of natural energy on par with sage mode that is not a cursed seal.

    Lastly, itachi explains a simple timeline regarding madara. It was worded very carefully but it is somewhat insightful when tempting to guess when madara died and when became the personaluty of tobi. His timeline is not to be taken too literally since kishi wants to keep secrets but words it so its true in technical sense yet with double meaning.

    Now for a question, do you think itachi could have killed madara? Itachi explains that madara was alive and well for a time that overlaps both uchiha massacre and itachi's own membership in akatsuki before before stating he is a pathetic shell. Madara may have already parted with his rinnegan (given to nagato) or perhaps he had it during the time itachi joined akatsuki. Hell, it's probable that the use of rinnegan itself took a lethal toll on madara but sure enough, madara did not have hashirama enhancements. That fact coupled with his likely aging, i believe it likely that itachi was capable of defeating him (which is one way to theorize madara's time of death considering the appearances of the long haired masked man and when they occurred) and did so. Now i know it raises serious issues with tobi and itachi's continued involvement with akatsuki but it also plays a serious point to itachi protecting sasuke and konaha. Itachi can't take on all the members of akatsuki at once (if he were to also kill tobi for instance, he'd be retaliated upon) but he could possibly end madara without getting caught (he likely had his trust), partly derail his sinister plot and continue to play his secret role from within akatsuki. Madara knew of sasuke (if he was indeed the long haired masked man) and he also knew itachi had the mangekyo (with tsukiyomi, *moons eye plan cough caught*. Madara would recognize the strong EMS potential between them as brothers. Go back to the itachi sasuke fight and read itachi's lecture on Ms and EMS. The points made there make it so that madara can not be allowed to live if he wants to keep sasuke safe. And before you ask, no, itachi did not need to mention to sasuke or ANYBODY that he killed original madara bcause not only is it totally unnecessary for him to do so, it will be so much more dramatic to hear it from madata's own mouth, especially if he encounters sasuke while still an edo!

    Do you think itachi could have ended to original madara?

    P.s. i am not an itachi fanboy, i just appreciate that much is tempting when given through the character.
    1. Itachi was the only one to "detect" Madara, but that was actually just his comprehension based on the masked man's actions/motivations. We've seen all this explained in Itachi's flashback. Itachi also explained that he lacks any sensor capabilities, at least of that sort; he explained to Kabuto that it was actually Nagato who possessed such abilities. Itachi probably knew that Zetsu was watching, but that would most likely be due to him knowing how Tobi opperates, and that Tobi would move in on Sasuke after the fight, hence the Failsasfe Amaterasu. I don't believe Itachi was hiding any sensory capabilities.

    2. Based on the timeline, we can assume that Itachi never met the *real* Madara, but actually knew Tobi. Madara himself died long enough ago that he remarked that the "brat" Nagato managed to grow; Nagato was a "brat" before Itachi was even born, and possessed Madara's Rinnegan at that point, as well.

    3. I'm not sure whether or not Itachi could have defeated Tobi, but I would honestly doubt it. Tobi seems too well-prepared, and far too familiar with the Sharingan and its powers. Itachi probably would have killed Tobi if he could, and instead tried to threaten him so that Tobi wouldn't move against Konoha/Sasuke while Itachi lived. I don't think Tobi was threatened so much by Itachi's power, but rather how much Itachi knew concerning Akatsuki and its goals. Also, Tobi was content to watch Sasuke develop in his hatred for Itachi, and all of their battles fit perfectly into Tobi's plans. As much of a beast as Tobi's proven to be, holding Naruto and Co at bay, I don't think Itachi himself could have handled him, even though Itachi would probably do better than any of the others, and give a good fight.

    4. I'm not sure if Sasuke's Kirin involves natural energy, but rather the environment. It's similar to how Kisame would use the water present in lakes/oceans nearby, or Earth users generally simply use the ground under their feet rather than creating more dirt/mud. Admittedly, it's a bit different that Sasuke can call lightning from the sky and manipulate it; I wonder if it's drawn to his Chidori? Does anyone know the properties of elctricity well enough to comment on this?

    6. Did Zetsu ever state that it was the Cursed Seal specifically that broke Itachi's Tsukuyomi? I agree it's quite likely, as Itachi seemed somewhat surprised that Sasuke countered the technique, even if he intended to let Sasuke win. However, I'm not sure if Sasuke *actually* drew on the Cursed Seal to escape, or if that was merely how he "defeated" the illusion through willpower. Compare it to how Sasuke/Itachi defeated Kabuto's Sound-Based Genjutsu; they created their own illusory selves to cut the snakes that were binding them within the Genjutsu. It suggests that Genjutsu opperates sortof like The Matrix; if you die in the Matrix, you die in real life, but you can fight with your mind and overcome the illusion.

  5. #6075
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    4. I'm not sure if Sasuke's Kirin involves natural energy, but rather the environment. It's similar to how Kisame would use the water present in lakes/oceans nearby, or Earth users generally simply use the ground under their feet rather than creating more dirt/mud. Admittedly, it's a bit different that Sasuke can call lightning from the sky and manipulate it; I wonder if it's drawn to his Chidori? Does anyone know the properties of elctricity well enough to comment on this?
    Executing Kirin involves no chakra on Sasuke's part. Only the environmental conditions have to be right for it. All Sasuke did was use Chidori as a lightning rod to guide the lightning to his target (Itachi). That's all there is to it. No gimmicks.

  6. #6076
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    Executing Kirin involves no chakra on Sasuke's part. Only the environmental conditions have to be right for it. All Sasuke did was use Chidori as a lightning rod to guide the lightning to his target (Itachi). That's all there is to it. No gimmicks.
    Yeah, I knew his Chidori formed the base of the technique to harness the lightning in the environment, and that he therefore doesn't spend any additional chakra to use Kirin. I still think it's the same as Kisame using the water around him, except creating an environment full of ligtning is somewhat difficult.

  7. #6077
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Well then, Kakashi Should be able to Use Kirin Too, shouldn't he?

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  8. #6078
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Well then, Kakashi Should be able to Use Kirin Too, shouldn't he?
    You'd think so, if he's skilled enough.

  9. #6079
    首はねスレイマン Saiges's Avatar
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    Kirin requires a serious katon jutsu (i.e katon gouryuuka no jutsu) to suddenly change the clouds into thunder ones.
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  10. #6080
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saiges View Post
    Kirin requires a serious katon jutsu (i.e katon gouryuuka no jutsu) to suddenly change the clouds into thunder ones.
    Well yeah, Kakashi can't manage that, but if he was by chance fighting in a thunderstorm...

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