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  1. #6221
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rlinfamous View Post
    I believe Minato may also be limited in his use of the Yin chakra.

    First of all, we know Edo Tensei ninjas cannot become a Jinchuuriki, thanks to Madara's inability to do so with the Juubi. While we have seen Edo Jinchuuriki through Obito's Paths, the Bijuu chakra was bound to the black rods, not to the Edo Tensei. It's possible these rods are what circumvented the need for a living host body for Bijuu transformation to occur, including partial transformation such as chakra arms.

    Secondly, I believe the Yin half is less the 'real' Kurama than the Yang, sort of like how when Naruto divides his chakra equally between clones there is still only one real body with a soul. The Yin probably has some of Kurama's Will, but is not equally complete on his own.
    From what I understood, the Half-Kyubi was bound to Minato's soul, instead of body like with Naruto (the same thing should have happened with the Oro's arms and Hiruzen, perhaps even the Hokages, but a plothole was utilized for the sake of epic-supposedly-battle).

    Technically, the reason why Minato's and Naruto's seal markings are reversed wasn't yet explained, we can only guess that it might have something to do with sealing different parts of Kyubi, or perhaps sealing it to different parts of their existence.

    It's actually possible that Minato and Naruto gained different bonuses thanks to different utilization of the same sealing method. For instances, Minato doesn't posses the emotion sensor that both Naruto and Mito possessed, thought it is unknown if it had something to do with the half-kyubi, the sealing method, or perhaps the Uzumaki lineage.

    The Bijuu themselves don't posses their own bodies (there is only one belonging to Jyubi), they rather utilize their own chakra and implanted So6p jutsu to create own bodies when they are on the loose (that is why when they are without Jinchurki, their forms are set and when their chakras are missing they simply get smaller instead of being deformed, thought Naruto and Kyubi inner final battle would suggest otherwise).



  2. #6222
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I think That Minato is a Jinchuuriki, but he is a limited and partial Jinchuuriki. In my mind, what Madara stated was a nuanced partial explanation. He (Madara) if he were to become the Juubi's Jinchuuriki, he would not be a complete Jinchuuriki and he would not be able to access it's powers, he would hence not be able to become a true Rikudo.

    Minato's inability to sense evil intent and inability to use chakra arms are due in my opinion to him not being a living being in the proper sense of the word.

    @Zero,

    I don't think Minato's seal is different from Naruto's. The seals bear the same name and the Markings look the same. What happened I think is very simple. Minato, while he was still alive, made himself the Jinchuuriki of the Yin Kyuubi. Then He died. Normally when the Jinchuuriki dies, the Bijuu dies with him, but it is later reformed/reborn somewhere else and it roams free. The same thing happened to Minato and the Yin Kyuubi. But instead of a normal death where the Bijuu would reform, both of them were Locked Up in "The Death God's Belly", this prevented the Yin Kyuubi from reforming in the Living World. So when Orochimaru released them, they were resurrected together, still bound together due to the Hakke seal Minato had used while he was alive. The Yin Kyuubi was and is still sealed inside his body. But now that he's and Edo, as per Madara, he cannot be a complete/proper Jinchuuriki, but the power of the seal still keeps the Yin Kyuubi bound inside of Minato.

    I think the situation Will change somewhat now. The Yin Kyuubi has now Proclaimed that He is Moved by Naruto, and this implies he will cooperate fully with Minato. If Minato is able to do more next chapter, it would verify this assumption.


    Final Form of The Juubi.

    What if the Geddou Mazou, form is the Final Form of the Juubi, but with one eye instead of Nine. Basically a 10 Tailed Humanoid tree with a plant Bulb on its back and Insane amounts of endless power.

    Whether it can acheive its final form after Obito is defeated is yet to be seen, but this may be Madara's plan, because it will be at maximum power at its final form
    Last edited by paulbee; 08-13-2013 at 02:03 AM.

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  3. #6223
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    paulbee, perhaps the mokuton/zetsu components would serve as a stand-in or newly growing gedou mazo. could be a sick twist madara intended to happen to obito as a failsafe.. that obito literally becomes the new body of the juubi, not just the jinchuuriki.
    _____
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  4. #6224
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Their sealing marks are reversed, but otherwise they are very similar (both are also glowing, so it probably gives similar power ups).

    Minato's seal goes down from the abdomen:
    Spoiler!

    while Naruto's goes up:
    Spoiler!


    What's worth noting is that Minato never had the 9 (or the coma) symbol formed from the main circle/spiral like Naruto and Obito had, perhaps suggesting that it is the result of the Uzumaki/Hashirama cells mixing with the Bijuu's chakra.


    BTW even So6p from Jyubi's memories, that appear behind Naruto as his shadow, doesn't have complete rings in his eyes, so I guess this is how Rinnegan really looks like, with missing spots where Jyubi has his comas, again suggesting that Rinnegan is a devolved version of Jyubi's eyes:
    Spoiler!


    Actually this might even imply that the Older Son's eyes might have been stronger than So6p's in certain areas, but So6p was still stronger thanks to his better body.



  5. #6225
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    1: - A Bijuu can only be sealed in a living host and Minato was alive when he sealed half the kyuubi. Thus Madara can not seal the full power of the 10 tails as he is an Edo tensei

    2: - The Edo Tensei Jinchuuriki had a special jutsu cast from the statue allowing them to become temporary holders of the Bijuu power but it was ultimately still permanently bound to the statue though the chains.


    3: - Minato seal is on his chest because he used the Dead demon seal(Shingami seal) which pierced his chest and sealed half the Kyuubi in himself first.

    Then he used the 8 trigrams seal on Naruto to seal the remaining Kyuubi in Naruto along with Kushina and his own chakra.


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  6. #6226
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    1: - A Bijuu can only be sealed in a living host and Minato was alive when he sealed half the kyuubi. Thus Madara can not seal the full power of the 10 tails as he is an Edo tensei

    2: - The Edo Tensei Jinchuuriki had a special jutsu cast from the statue allowing them to become temporary holders of the Bijuu power but it was ultimately still permanently bound to the statue though the chains.


    3: - Minato seal is on his chest because he used the Dead demon seal(Shingami seal) which pierced his chest and sealed half the Kyuubi in himself first.

    Then he used the 8 trigrams seal on Naruto to seal the remaining Kyuubi in Naruto along with Kushina and his own chakra.
    I have to agree with you POW, well almost because I have some question in my mind.

    1) Minato truly did use the Dead Demon Seal, even if it resmbles the Hakke seal markings, at least the version used by Sandaime to seal the 1st and 2nd and Orochimaru's arms look very very much like that on Naruto's belly.

    2) I'd always thought that Naruto's Markings are flip side of Minato's Markings because of the Ying being Inverse of the Yang. I have not thought of the Markings as extensions of the Hakke or Dead demons seals at all.

    3) Madara as an Edo Could Use the Black Rods inside himself to gain the power of a Jinchuuriki. Afterall, did not Obito use the same black rods that Nagato Used?

    my guess is that using the Rods to gain the Juubi's power would not transform Madara into a Rikudo, he'd just be an Edo Jinchuuriki like the ones that Obito created.

    Another question is that WHY Minato is still the Yin Kyuubi's Jinchuuriki even though the Dead Demon Seal was anulled by Orochimaru and The 1st Hoakge, 2nd Hokage, and Oro's arms were AUTMOTICALLY FREED from the 3rd Hokage, why is the Yin Kyuubi the exception, assuming that Minato did not perform or intermix a Hakkes seal with the dead demon seal?
    Last edited by paulbee; 08-13-2013 at 06:28 PM.

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  7. #6227
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    1: - A Bijuu can only be sealed in a living host and Minato was alive when he sealed half the kyuubi. Thus Madara can not seal the full power of the 10 tails as he is an Edo tensei

    2: - The Edo Tensei Jinchuuriki had a special jutsu cast from the statue allowing them to become temporary holders of the Bijuu power but it was ultimately still permanently bound to the statue though the chains.


    3: - Minato seal is on his chest because he used the Dead demon seal(Shingami seal) which pierced his chest and sealed half the Kyuubi in himself first.

    Then he used the 8 trigrams seal on Naruto to seal the remaining Kyuubi in Naruto along with Kushina and his own chakra.
    1. He can still transfer it's prower through Obito to himself, in similar fashion how Obito transfered the Bijuu's power through GM to Jinchuriki, though this method might be limited to ex-jinchuriki for some reason.

    2. I don't really see why it couldn't have been made to other Edo Tensei Zombies, other than that the fact that Jinchuriki excelled at using their Bijuu, while others had no experience in using them.

    3. I was wondering if the reason that their seals are reversed, isn't perhaps because Minato did the seal on himself, thus in reverse, to what he did to Naruto that was in front him, but that couldn't be that simple , plus the seal is reversed horizontally instead of diagonally.

    Let's not forget that Minato is the only known Jinchuriki to die with his Bijuu. Everyone else was consumed by a Bijuu, or died after the Bijuu was extracted from him/her. Coupled up with the fact that half-Kyubi wes removed from it's infinity circle of death and rebirth, it make sense more or less... until you consider that the same thing should have happened with Hiruzen (especially when Sasuke proved that humans can also act as Bijuu inside other people), yep instead of being free, Oro's arns, the 1st and 2nd Hokage should still be sealed within Hiruzen (or at least Oro's arms, since the use of the KB might have made some changes), of which powers and techniques Sarutobi should have access, the same way as Sasuke had to Oro's powers.
    Last edited by Zero; 08-13-2013 at 09:00 PM.



  8. #6228
    Scanlator POW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I have to agree with you POW, well almost because I have some question in my mind.

    3) Madara as an Edo Could Use the Black Rods inside himself to gain the power of a Jinchuuriki. Afterall, did not Obito use the same black rods that Nagato Used?

    my guess is that using the Rods to gain the Juubi's power would not transform Madara into a Rikudo, he'd just be an Edo Jinchuuriki like the ones that Obito created.

    The rods allow him to channel chakra and control another body such as one of the Edo Tensei bodies. It probably wouldn't work on the Jyuubi itself. Also the rods have nothing to do with him becoming a jinchuuriki as they are used to control an external power.


    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Another question is that WHY Minato is still the Yin Kyuubi's Jinchuuriki even though the Dead Demon Seal was anulled by Orochimaru and The 1st Hoakge, 2nd Hokage, and Oro's arms were AUTMOTICALLY FREED from the 3rd Hokage, why is the Yin Kyuubi the exception, assuming that Minato did not perform or intermix a Hakkes seal with the dead demon seal?
    Orochimaru only released the 4 Kages souls and his hands not everything else sealed by the deathgod. Thus the release was meant for only specific things Orochimaru requested. I'm certain there are plenty other souls and things sealed in the death god that the Uzamaki clan had sealed over the years.


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  9. #6229
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    after the past few posts, i gotta...

    1. The dead demon seal. So now, we have distinction between its "sealing power" and "sealing container". In conversation both between manga characters and readers, dead demon seal is most often used with the understanding that it is a sealing container; the death god belly being an eternal destination for the sealed and sealer and setting for their inevitable and neverending struggle. That is the most common understanding, I beleive anyway. Second, it is discussed only slightly less often with the understanding of being a powerful sealing container but without the eternal struggle aspect. Lastly, it is rarely, if ever, discussed with the understanding of its extreme sealing power alone, divorced of the containing aspect. so...

    2. With the kyuubi, Minato used the dead demon seal's POWER to extract the kyubii's yin only to use his own body as a container. Can someone clear this up? (EDIT: I read the chapter, this is actually what happened! http://www.mangapark.com/manga/Naruto/c504/6)

    I don't have the chapter handy but did he use the dead demon seal as merely a powerful means to extract the yin AND seal the yin in his own body?

    or

    Did Minato use the dead demon seal as a powerful means to extract the yin THEN use a DIFFERENT seal to seal the yin in his own body?

    For me, this is creating some unforeseen loopholes into how the dead demon seal can be utilized. if orochimaru discovered the key to unlocking or reversing the seal and it has exposed some of the mechanics of the jutsu, why not have characters like the third hokage, seal the edo hashirama and tobirama into something else USING THE DEAD DEMON SEAL but only the sacrificial sealer is obligated to spend eternity in the belly? If minato can use the power of the seal to store something that isn't expressly the death god's belly then we might have some holes, EVEN IF technically the yin chakra was in the belly because minato was in the belly because the seal seems to be designed to put sealed objects/people straight into the belly along SIDE the caster.

    ___

    Can we technically call Minato a jinchuuriki? I am saying NO! Kishi has gone out of his way to make too many technically special circumstances with Minato, the seals, the kyuubi chakra, the edo tensei.. He is NOT a jinchuuriki imo. I WON"T be surprised, however, if the manga eventually reveals that he is one, and has some good reasons and further revelations why.

    just my thoughts and would like some answers and consensus.
    Last edited by knife eater; 08-13-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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  10. #6230
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I may have said this before, but it's probably worth repeating.

    For me, visually at least the Dead Demon Seal seen on Sandaime is indistinguishable from the Hakke fuiin used on Naruto.

    Spoiler!


    Sandaime

    Spoiler!


    Naruto 1


    Spoiler!


    Naruto 2

    I think that Kishi will say that the Hakke is used as part of the Dead Demon Seal or something like that. So it is slight a curve that Orochimaru chose whom he wanted to unseal from the Death God's belly and could specifically undo the Hakke on Sandaime simultaneously.

    If the Dead Demon seal uses the Hakke fuiin

    ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,dang my daughter distracted me and now I can't remember the rest.
    Last edited by paulbee; 08-14-2013 at 01:10 AM.

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