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  1. #6181
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Temperjoke View Post
    Here's a question that I've been thinking about lately: is it possible that the Uzumaki clan are the true descendants of the Younger Son, and not the Senju clan? I mean, yeah, Hashirama had his Mokuton jutsu, and was incredibly powerful. But it seems to me that the Uzumaki clan in general has more amazing abilities. All of them were renown for possessing huge chakra pools and longer than normal lifespans. They also seem to unique chakra abilities as well: Karin has her unique healing ability, Kushina had her chakra chains which she used to contain the Kyuubi, Mito was such a powerful sensor she could locate people by their emotions. It just seems to me that they have more power overall than the Senju clan did, aside from Hashirama.
    It seems to me that Kishimoto has left himself the option to revise this subject as he pleases. A year ago I would have said "No Way", but after the Tobi = / <> Madara Hoo Hah!, I am not so sure.

    My own observations tend to be that the Uzumaki segregated themselves like the Uchiha have done, thereby concentrating their Younger Son Genes while the Senju have mixed it up with other tribes and are more diverse and diluted.

    One thing though, If you're talking "Amazing Abilities", you should note that The 3rd Raikage and Juugo's Clan had the Most Amazing abilities. This tends to suggest that having amazing abilities is not neccessarily an indication of closeness to the Sage.

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  2. #6182
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    and there way more uzumaki characters the manga took the time to develop than senju.

    uzumaki: naruto, pein, karin, kushina + mito hashirama's wife as honorable mention

    senju: hashirama, tsunade. nidaime was developed more than mito but less than kushina.

    in my opinion, hashirama and tsunade are more impressive "ability-wise" than any of the uzimaki but that's just me.

    for the sake of easy argument i will say that uzumaki and senju are on equal footing in regards to vitality but uzumaki have developed traits into long life and preservative potent chakra whereas senju developed traits into constitution and handling abuse and blows. hashirama and tsunade can heal themselves "without seals" and demonstrate their gift of vitality but it seems that that is due to their "abilities/techniques".. how they use their chakra. the uzumaki, on the other hand, demonstrate their gift of vitality by having chakra with restorative/rejuvenating traits as the natural property of their chakra itself. it's almost subtle but that's my genuine belief based on how kishimoto has presented the uzumaki characters and senju characters.

    senju are just so curiously and sorely unrepresented, little is known about them so i cant say much more on the question. :(
    _____
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  3. #6183
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Isn't It possible that some of the Ninjas at the Allied Headquarters might have survived by using the Flying Thunder God Techniques to escape?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  4. #6184
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Isn't It possible that some of the Ninjas at the Allied Headquarters might have survived by using the Flying Thunder God Techniques to escape?
    Let's see, good, special guard ninjas can transport themselves and one additional person when 3 of them hold hands together, but it is slow and they can't do it repeatedly, it's even possible that they can teleport only to one marker as well (which is Tsunade)... not to mention that those guys weren't at the HQ... you never knows with Kishi... then again they have that special lightning tool transportation, but anyone else than raikeges would probably die in an instant...

  5. #6185
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Let's see, good, special guard ninjas can transport themselves and one additional person when 3 of them hold hands together, but it is slow and they can't do it repeatedly, it's even possible that they can teleport only to one marker as well (which is Tsunade)... not to mention that those guys weren't at the HQ... you never knows with Kishi... then again they have that special lightning tool transportation, but anyone else than raikeges would probably die in an instant...
    Well I thought about it, and I felt that this is not the first time in Manga that we assumed people died and they didn't, an example is Kuchiki Byakuya in Bleach.

    The Last time we saw the FTG gang, they had transported Mitsukage to the Madara fight, but nothing says they stayed there. If they had returned to the HQ, or even if they hadn't but had gotten the telepathic Message that HQ was targeted by the Juubi, they had enough time to zip back and grab one, two, or three ninjas and FTG them back to where Tsunade and the Kages are.

    Just a thought.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #6186
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    chapter 619-620.. why did orochimaru tell the hokages that the war was because "madara has been revived and commiting genocide on all shinobi" and not, "madara has been revived and is going to put the world in genjutsu". it's different enough to be significant. i have never been more suspicious of oro and kabuto as i am now. everything they have done is fishy on deeper levels than what is visible. lots of who knew what and when, what they planned or did not plan together and so much more.

    i have a bad feeling oro is hiding something and is manipulating the kages and sasuke in one go. letting them join the frey? ya, you edo zombies go fught more edo zombies in a futile battle between immortals while i just wait here with my returning arms, command of hashirama's cells/power.. the stone tablet as well as opportunity to possess madara from under your nose or use mokuton in a bid to take sasuke's eyes.

    also, why was it so easy for oro to take over zetsu but he never did something similar with his own hashirama cell endeavours? this is something he had plenty of time to do even before he lost his arms, nothing like asking why didnt he undo dead demon sooner (that was explained).

    also, the wood in the stone tablet room. its special ya? perhaps its mokuton from the younger brother from the time of the tablets origin? will the mokuton also reveal secrets of the stone that the uchiha ocular doujutsu's can't see? i think mokuton has a special purpose with the stone tablet otherwise there isn't much reason to be there since oro and sasuke already have a grip on what it says. must have mokuton activated function, oro did goid bringing hashi right next to it.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  7. #6187
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    chapter 619-620.. why did orochimaru tell the hokages that the war was because "madara has been revived and commiting genocide on all shinobi" and not, "madara has been revived and is going to put the world in genjutsu". it's different enough to be significant. i have never been more suspicious of oro and kabuto as i am now. everything they have done is fishy on deeper levels than what is visible. lots of who knew what and when, what they planned or did not plan together and so much more.

    i have a bad feeling oro is hiding something and is manipulating the kages and sasuke in one go. letting them join the frey? ya, you edo zombies go fught more edo zombies in a futile battle between immortals while i just wait here with my returning arms, command of hashirama's cells/power.. the stone tablet as well as opportunity to possess madara from under your nose or use mokuton in a bid to take sasuke's eyes.

    also, why was it so easy for oro to take over zetsu but he never did something similar with his own hashirama cell endeavours? this is something he had plenty of time to do even before he lost his arms, nothing like asking why didnt he undo dead demon sooner (that was explained).

    also, the wood in the stone tablet room. its special ya? perhaps its mokuton from the younger brother from the time of the tablets origin? will the mokuton also reveal secrets of the stone that the uchiha ocular doujutsu's can't see? i think mokuton has a special purpose with the stone tablet otherwise there isn't much reason to be there since oro and sasuke already have a grip on what it says. must have mokuton activated function, oro did goid bringing hashi right next to it.
    Ninjas are humans, and humans without free will, are not humans, thus the Shinobi as are known, would disappear. Not to mention other beings have even less chance to resist the MEP. Not to mention that in MEP, they wont's be able to do anything, this includes ninja techniques and well, ninjas are beings that use ninja techniques, if they can't, then they are not ninjas . You can interpret it as that as well, besides it shortens the explanation. Plus, IIRC, Kabuto didn't know of Tobi's plan in details, they found enough that he wants to take over the world using the Jyubi and So6p's power, it seems.

    It's Oro, you never know. Then again Oro have somewhat lost attachment to the living world and now only needs Sasuke to complete his goal, but perhaps Sasuke himself might do it for Oro, seeing as Oro reacts to Sasuke now.

    He never was able to produce a complete soulless clone of Hashirama (Kabuto calls Tenzou/Yamato a clone of Hashirama, which means that they weren't able to go much further than that), not to mention to mass-produce Zetsu, which that soulless clone is needed. Of course, the usage of the Jyubi's body in creating clones, might have been the key, since it probably retained some of it's creation powers.

    Wood ? Which wood, the floor ? The tablet is made of stone, it's that thing that stands on that altar (not that picture than hangs on the wall). It is even called the stone tablet, IIRC. It even seems that the Uzumaki might have had something similar (like the missing sentences being sealed within the stone, or a some symbol on it). I'm a little interested in the big stone tablet that Itachi found in some strange tropical-like(?) bushes, or rather, now that I look at it, a portion of it is missing and it seems to be the size of the Uchiha's stone tablet... then again, the text seems to be positioned differently... then again, we don't know how positioned the hidden text is (it might have been camouflaged with genjutsu, or something similar since only certain doujutsu can see what is written there).

  8. #6188
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    Ninjas are humans, and humans without free will, are not humans, thus the Shinobi as are known, would disappear. Not to mention other beings have even less chance to resist the MEP. Not to mention that in MEP, they wont's be able to do anything, this includes ninja techniques and well, ninjas are beings that use ninja techniques, if they can't, then they are not ninjas . You can interpret it as that as well, besides it shortens the explanation. Plus, IIRC, Kabuto didn't know of Tobi's plan in details, they found enough that he wants to take over the world using the Jyubi and So6p's power, it seems.

    It's Oro, you never know. Then again Oro have somewhat lost attachment to the living world and now only needs Sasuke to complete his goal, but perhaps Sasuke himself might do it for Oro, seeing as Oro reacts to Sasuke now.

    He never was able to produce a complete soulless clone of Hashirama (Kabuto calls Tenzou/Yamato a clone of Hashirama, which means that they weren't able to go much further than that), not to mention to mass-produce Zetsu, which that soulless clone is needed. Of course, the usage of the Jyubi's body in creating clones, might have been the key, since it probably retained some of it's creation powers.

    Wood ? Which wood, the floor ? The tablet is made of stone, it's that thing that stands on that altar (not that picture than hangs on the wall). It is even called the stone tablet, IIRC. It even seems that the Uzumaki might have had something similar (like the missing sentences being sealed within the stone, or a some symbol on it). I'm a little interested in the big stone tablet that Itachi found in some strange tropical-like(?) bushes, or rather, now that I look at it, a portion of it is missing and it seems to be the size of the Uchiha's stone tablet... then again, the text seems to be positioned differently... then again, we don't know how positioned the hidden text is (it might have been camouflaged with genjutsu, or something similar since only certain doujutsu can see what is written there).
    i was talking about the floor and walls. they behaved like wood and the obvious immediate purpose of that wood (made from mokuton, not forest lumber) would be to mitigate certain jutsus from taking effect if cast in the room, which? idk, it's justva guess at something since et worked.

    given how chakra works, people can seal themselves in things and all kinds of hoooey. anyway, the main thing is maybe there are senju secrets in the stone and mokuton is the jutsu that uncovers them, absorbing the chakra of a special seal to release a part of text for example.

    next question..

    @paulbee, i though more about hq'destruction. were there any so6p treasures left in hq? until kin gin, hq had the giant pot which onced contained the 8 tails. raikage's assistant teleported the pot to darui's location in order for him to seal the brothers. after that, the manga doesn't say what happened. if the pot was actually teleported back then shikamaru and ino's dads could have sealed themselves in the pot and told kakashi about it. the pot would protect them from the blast as well as erase their chakra signature. i don't see why the pot wouldnt be returned to hq afterwards just to remain for the better part of the mop up. EDIT: whoops! turns out tobi stole both pots, big and small one, from the post battle resting period. he did, however, promise to give it back once he got the 9 tails chakra from them, lol!

    it does give the idea that there are a few options for hq to survive unnoticed. sealing techniques would be a good alternative to teleportation depending on what's available. between 3 jonin, i am confident there was a way to survive.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  9. #6189
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    ^ That depends on what happens with the pocket dimension of an item that is destroyed. The possibility of the jutsu just being released, when the item is destroyed seems slim, because it would greatly reduce the value of sealing techs if they can be broken through pure force. Most likely, the pocket dimension shatters, with it's contents. Other possibility is that a road/door to that certain dimension disappears.


    Speaking of the pots, they are now inside Jyubi. What's more, IIRC, there were other people beside the brothers that were imprisoned within it. I wonder if they will came out being Jyubi powered upped, or if they are already dead ? Or perhaps they work like a bijuu in a host, but this time the bijuu is the host for humans in it ?

  10. #6190
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Does anybody know a Manga Website that archives MS versions?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

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