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  1. #6151
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    Point of observation.

    Madra never used the term Geddou Mazou. He merely said Mazou.
    According to Mangastream he said "Mazo Statue"... isn't Mazo translated as Statue ? Perhaps they mistakenly written Mazo Statue, when they were to wright Gedou Statue (makes more sense):
    Spoiler!


    Or simply, the statue isn't heretical for Madara, while it is for everybody else... or simply it's the name that Nagato gave it, and Obito now uses it, similar with Kamui, I guess ? Perhaps it didn't have a name before and was simply called a Statue.



  2. #6152
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zero View Post
    According to Mangastream he said "Mazo Statue"... isn't Mazo translated as Statue ? Perhaps they mistakenly written Mazo Statue, when they were to wright Gedou Statue (makes more sense):
    Spoiler!


    Or simply, the statue isn't heretical for Madara, while it is for everybody else... or simply it's the name that Nagato gave it, and Obito now uses it, similar with Kamui, I guess ? Perhaps it didn't have a name before and was simply called a Statue.
    Correct me if I'm wrong but mazo does not mean statue. It means demon (not oni) or magic person. I checked 3 dictionaries and mazo never had an entry saying anything close to statue.

    Gedou mazo literally means "demon of false doctrine". Perhaps mazo means statue in the sense of false idol?
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  3. #6153
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    Which ninjutsu would win? Amaterasu or Daidoukan? One burns everything until it's burned, one absorbs the chakra in the ninjutsu and grows stronger and bigger. I would imagine the Naruto-universe would just be destroyed by these 2 ninjutsu colliding into each other!

  4. #6154
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by knife eater View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong but mazo does not mean statue. It means demon (not oni) or magic person. I checked 3 dictionaries and mazo never had an entry saying anything close to statue.

    Gedou mazo literally means "demon of false doctrine". Perhaps mazo means statue in the sense of false idol?
    The Japanese word for statue is actually "Zou". Attaching Zou to the end of various words seem to give it the properties of being a statue such as "Butsuzou" = Buddist Statue, or "Douzou" = Bronze Statue.

    Japanese words are created using various characters most of which have their own meanings so it's probably better to look at it as "Ma-Zou", yet rather than mean demon Ma seems to be a character which can refer to either a certain space or time while Gedou as you pointed out means false doctrine or heretical.

    The word demon was probably translated as proper by the translators while Gedou Mazou can be left up to interpretation which is probably why it wasn't simply translated into English fully as well or simply that the translation takes up too much space when translated fully.

  5. #6155
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    If Zou means statue, and Ma (from Fairytail) seems to mean Magic, then Mazou could means Magical Statue.

    The Mazou refered to by Madara would then be a plant that Grows A Magical Statue.Geddou Mazou could then correctly be a Heretical Magical Statue.

    2+2=4 => The Gaddou Mazou is a Magical Statue Used to Recombine the Juubi, and give it a body
    .

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #6156
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Thanks for input, guys. I often mislead myself with the incorrect romanization of Japanese words. It's usually with "u" or an honorific "O". Sure enough, I was operating with mazo and not mazou.

    Glad you guys are here

    What we then take from this (me at least) is that the gedou mazou pain and tobi used is madara's creation to control (imprison more like it) the 10 tails? I'm betting the original body is on the moon.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

  7. #6157
    Senior Member Execution's Avatar
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    Some ideas came to me recently that I have been pondering quite a bit and wanted to see what everyone else thought. Though having been absent from the forum for quite a bit I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but I figure I'll ask anyway.

    In the Naruto universe there are only three Dojutsu the Rinnegan, the Sharingan, and the Byakugan. The Rinnegan being a unique eye that's very difficult to obtain currently has no relation to clan lineage unlike the Sharingan and Byakugan. In the beginning Kishi toyed with the Notion that the Hyuuga clan might be somehow related to the Uchiha, but unfortunately this hasn't been touched on again for quite some time.

    - It's obvious that the Hyuuga possess the Spiritual energies necessary for Dojutsu, but where did it come from? Are the Hyuuga somehow related to the SO6P like the Uchiha and Senju? Could they be a branch family of the Uchiha like the Uzumaki are to the Senju?

    - Perhaps the Byakugan is a degenerative mutation of the Sharingan like the Sharingan is to the Rinnegan?

    - Would someone from the Hyuuga clan be able to use the Sharingan effectively without fatiguing themselves or vice versa?

    - If the second is true could an Uchiha turn Byakugan into Sharingan like Madara transformed his Sharingan into Rinnegan?
    Last edited by Execution; 09-27-2012 at 02:15 PM.

  8. #6158
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    Some ideas came to me recently that I have been pondering quite a bit and wanted to see what everyone else thought. Though having been absent from the forum for quite a bit I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but I figure I'll ask anyway.

    In the Naruto universe there are only three Dojutsu the Rinnegan, the Sharingan, and the Byakugan. The Rinnegan being a unique eye that's very difficult to obtain currently has no relation to clan lineage unlike the Sharingan and Byakugan. In the beginning Kishi toyed with the Notion that the Hyuuga clan might be somehow related to the Uchiha, but unfortunately this hasn't been touched on again for quite some time.

    - It's obvious that the Hyuuga possess the Spiritual energies necessary for Dojutsu, but where did it come from? Are the Hyuuga somehow related to the SO6P like the Uchiha and Senju? Could they be a branch family of the Uchiha like the Uzumaki are to the Senju?

    - Perhaps the Byakugan is a degenerative mutation of the Sharingan like the Sharingan is to the Rinnegan?

    - Would someone from the Hyuuga clan be able to use the Sharingan effectively without fatiguing themselves or vice versa?

    - If the second is true could an Uchiha turn Byakugan into Sharingan like Madara transformed his Sharingan into Rinnegan?
    Some have theorized that the Byakugan pre-dates the Rinnegan, and the Rikudou himself was a Hyuga with incredibly strong physical/spiritual energies that allowed him to awaken the Rinnegan.

    I like this theory somewhat, because it seems the Byakugan inherently connects the Doujutsu with the body itself (manipulation of one's own chakra points), and lends itself to taijutsu. It meshes well with my view of the Rinnegan, which I take to be a combination of both aspects of the Uchiha/Senju, rather than being merely the "Doujutsu/Uchiha" half of the Rikudou.

    That said, we haven't seen any evidence linking the Rinnegan to the Byakugan, nor any Hyuga with exceptional chakra or notable evolutions. Unless Kishi throws us new evidence in the shape of a major curve ball, the Byakugan seems to be a forgotten Doujutsu.

    Nevertheless, the Rikudou was said to be the first to discover/perceive the true nature of chakra. The Byakugan is the greatest tool in that regard. I think if the Rikudou was a Hyuga capable of mastering Natural Energy, he could discover the nature of both types of chakra (basically humanity and nature), and would be well on his way to discovering all there is to know about chakra.

  9. #6159
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Execution View Post
    Some ideas came to me recently that I have been pondering quite a bit and wanted to see what everyone else thought. Though having been absent from the forum for quite a bit I don't know if this has been discussed yet, but I figure I'll ask anyway.

    In the Naruto universe there are only three Dojutsu the Rinnegan, the Sharingan, and the Byakugan. The Rinnegan being a unique eye that's very difficult to obtain currently has no relation to clan lineage unlike the Sharingan and Byakugan. In the beginning Kishi toyed with the Notion that the Hyuuga clan might be somehow related to the Uchiha, but unfortunately this hasn't been touched on again for quite some time.

    - It's obvious that the Hyuuga possess the Spiritual energies necessary for Dojutsu, but where did it come from? Are the Hyuuga somehow related to the SO6P like the Uchiha and Senju? Could they be a branch family of the Uchiha like the Uzumaki are to the Senju?

    - Perhaps the Byakugan is a degenerative mutation of the Sharingan like the Sharingan is to the Rinnegan?

    - Would someone from the Hyuuga clan be able to use the Sharingan effectively without fatiguing themselves or vice versa?

    - If the second is true could an Uchiha turn Byakugan into Sharingan like Madara transformed his Sharingan into Rinnegan?
    Actually, they are mentioned as the 3 Great Doujutsus (Byakugan, Sharingan, Rinnegan), which means that there are lesser ones as well, which probably degenerate from them. Funny enough, all 3 of them were once possessed by Konoha Shinobi, well the Rinnegan by an ex member .

    Byakugan is the only mentioned dojutsu that has literally nothing to do with ninjutsu, funny enough we haven't even seen a Hyuga using any ninjutsu (beside the sealing jutsu) or genjutsu as well, it's even possible that they can't. Their techniques seem more like those of Samurai, purely based on chakra control and it's manipulation, but without any affinity and hand seals.

    As Rlin mentioned, the possibility isn't small that Byakugan existed before Ninjutsu was born, especially seeing as what it does. What's more, strong powers aren't born from nothing, most of the time there exists some base upon which they evolve.

    There even exists the possibility that the Hyuga are Humans from the previous cycle. It was mentioned that Jyubi destroys and rebuilds the world constantly with it's inhabitants (it's unknown if willingly). At the end of previous cycle, the era of Samurai, So6p appeared and stopped the cycle for a long time. Perhaps, Hyuga's are for Samurais, what Samurai for Ninjas and have somehow survived to this point. Perhaps the reason why they procreate with only their clan members, isn't because they are afraid of loosing their power, but because they simply can't ?

    What's more, if Hyuga existed before Ninjutsu, so could have Juugo's clan. What if, a Hyuga got mixed with one of them and thus gave birth to 2 powerful beings, one being So6p and the other, the Jyubi. If you think about it, their eyes are similar, it's possible that Jyubi was a powerful human with special doujutsu, but was unable to control his power and absorbed unimaginable amounts of Natural Energy, in turn transforming into a rampaging monster.
    Last edited by Zero; 09-27-2012 at 06:42 PM.



  10. #6160
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Yes, copy pasta

    Since we're on a mythological and religion based bent in understanding aspects of the manga.. would it be ok to suggest that uzumaki is an Eve or Lilith? Given that uzumakis are shown to be wives of two kages then so to would their ancestor be mate to so6p. It would then mean the uzumaki are indeed blood relations to the senju without necessarily being a branch from the senju. A long time ago when "it is said that the sharingan's origin lies with the byakugan", i thought then that so6p was a hyuga with mutated eyes. Now i think IM believing it again with hinata and naruto representing a type of reincarnation of both character and also the union. The union of hyuga and uzumaki which birthed uchiha and senju. If the jyubi were to touch a hyuga then byakugan could be a perfect base by which to mutate or transform into an ultimate ocular doujutsu.

    update: so6p would not have had naturally mutated eyes but instead his byakugan would have been transformed by the jyubi or some divine being. Most important to me, however, is the strong possibility that naruto and hinata reflect the union of so6p and the mother of the sons.
    _____
    Obito is Tobirama's great grandson. The proof is in the pudding.

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