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  • No.

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  1. #5981
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by POW View Post
    I'm just going to post 2 questions that I'm sure everyone is curious about considering how much hype as been built around these 2 characters.



    1) How do you think Hashirama died?

    2) How do you think Madara died?




    I had a thought that wouldn't it be ironic if Hashirama was killed by a Jinchuuriki considering he is the one who gave Tailed beasts to the other countries to balance the power.

    In the same way it would be ironic if Madara was killed by overusing his Rinnegan the very power he sought.
    1. I don't think there's been any evidence as to how exactly Hashirama died, so I'm just going to guess that he died of chakra exhausting during one of the wars, because it seems like he never made it to old age, and I don't think anyone could kill him in battle.

    2. I think Madara died while giving his Rinnegan to Nagato, but was in the process of dying long before that, possibly to over-use of the Rinnegan. It wouldn't surprise me if he tried to use his Creation of All Things to create Tobi, which probably took a lot out of him.

  2. #5982
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    uhm, afaik it says in the manga that hashirama died during one of the wars but thats about all we get to know about his death, the how and why is completely unknown.

    the problem is that it is only theories, Rlinfamous and there is no evidence. it can be true that madara or tobi gave nagato the rinnegan (which would dismiss the claim that tobi said he did) or nagato could simply have developed it naturally(as this theory is just as much supported as the other one) and that tobi is lying(which fits his personality perfectly), so until kishi actually writes it into the manga anything can be right and no1 can dismiss one theory over another, whether it is the "tobi gave nagato the rinnegan" theory or the "nagato developed it himself" theory as they can both be true at this point in time.

  3. #5983
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    NARUTO...

    coming soon to a Manga near me
    ..this Wednesday....

    Gua hah hah hah ha!

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  4. #5984
    Senior Member knife eater's Avatar
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    Been thinking, I don't pay attention to the details as well as most of you (I make some pretty bad posts) but what I was on my mind was this war we are witnessing atm. Between what? 100,000 allied shinobi and 100,000 Akatsuki forces (roughly 99,975 white zetsu clones) their casualties are mentioned to be about even? The more you think about it the less it makes sense.

    My question is, then, is Tobi truly stupid, Kishimoto negligently shaping events in the Narutoverse, white Zetu clones truly amazing, or allied shinobi woefully weak?

    First, take Kabuto from the equation. What you get is Tobi with 7 bijuu and his white Zetsu clones lacking the Yamato power up. Bijuu is one thing, sure; it's hard to speculate the combat potential of 7 bijuu being thrown at a force of 100,000 shinobi. However, white Zetsu clone is a white Zetsu clone. Its potential is equal among all clones. Are you telling me that between 100,000 shinobi (with their generational surpassing ways) they wouldn't be able to adapt or implement an efficient method of dispatching them? Sure, a ton of genin or fodder nin might be beneath the power of a white Zetsu clone but there should be exceptional jonin (or Shikamaru even) who could understand how white Zetsu operates, exploit the static potential of such a force of clones and devise a system to deal with the threat. They had intel/reason to believe that the white Zetsu mimics chakra signatures (they can't duplicate chakra capacity or a shinobi's intelligence/prowess) therefore there should be some sort of prevention protocol developed (we had the pass code system used twice in the series to deal with clones and transformations if you please excuse it as a cheap example). An army of just white Zetsu clones does not seem all that likely to pose a serious threat, much less achieve victory in a ninja war where the battlefield will undoubtedly contain geniuses and expert tacticians. What was Tobi thinking? Ahhh, I guess perhaps a war was not in his initial plan and he had his clones simply as a distraction to gank 2 bijuu? Idk. With just shinobi forces fighting just Zetsu clones I would think there would be a very clear upperhand.

    Now, we throw Kabuto in the equation. He injects some edo tensei into Tobi's military power. We have around a few dozen "legendary" ninjas. A few dozen! (if that, even).. Seriously, the edo tensei ninjas must be responsible for the bulk of allied casualties and even then it's becoming quite a stretch thinking a few of them just wiped out thousands upon thousands.

    Maybe the allied shinobi force is too stupid for its own good?

    This war (I can't believe we still call it that) barely, if at all, adheres to logical or tactical thinking.

    So, either Kishimoto illustrated the current arc with a severe lack of forethought and oversight or he is showing us how truly pitiful Tobi is by having him too confident, ignorant of and about his foes, and always underestimating the opposition (remember his fight with the 4th and now this war).

    TLDR: Why did the allied shinobi force suffer such heavy casualties?

    Bonus question: How do you think Tobi planned to get the 8 tails and 9 tails after losing all the Akatsuki members but before he accepted the help of Kabuto?

  5. #5985
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    It's 100,000 Zetsus to 80,000 shinobi. You do have a good point, however recognize that Tobi's plan did not consider that Naruto could route out the infiltrating White Zetsus that were disguised as Shinobis.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  6. #5986
    Senior Member Zero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    It's 100,000 Zetsus to 80,000 shinobi. You do have a good point, however recognize that Tobi's plan did not consider that Naruto could route out the infiltrating White Zetsus that were disguised as Shinobis.
    It's the other way around. Tobi knew that after gaining control over Kyubi's chakra, Naruto will be able to do that (he got the scroll from Kisame's shark after all). It was meant to pressure and force the alliance to rely on Naruto's new sensing abilities, so that he will jump on Tobi's frying-pan called battlefield.

    Well, it should be mentioned that most ninjas are genins and chunins, which more or less are at comparable level to Zetsu clones. The ET Zombies are indeed the ones that fight those more powerful, jounin and above, of shinobi alliance.

    Beside you can't forget that the ones that did the most damage, are Edodara, with his Meteor Rain, and Tobidara, with his Heteric Statute dancing break dance on ninjas heads... although those results might have been before those events I mentioned (), it still wouldn't change the fact that Tobi would only need to unleash GM in a few more places on the battlefield to have the same results.



  7. #5987
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    I doubt that Kisame had the time to include Naruto's ability in his scroll, especially since the Zetsus were taken by complete surprise. Tobi's strategy was to fight a war of attrition, killing as many allied forces as possible and to use Black Zetsu to kidnap the Feudal Lords, forcing the the Kages to use everything they had, including KB and Naruto.

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  8. #5988
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    you are both right and both wrong, tobi used the white zetsus to copy shinobi chakra and copy them and go on a killing spree AND factored in that naruto would be able to sense negative emotions, should he learn to fully control the kyubi, there were nothing to loose and everything to gain if you think about it.

  9. #5989
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by almara View Post
    you are both right and both wrong, tobi used the white zetsus to copy shinobi chakra and copy them and go on a killing spree AND factored in that naruto would be able to sense negative emotions, should he learn to fully control the kyubi, there were nothing to loose and everything to gain if you think about it.
    I wonder, did Tobi actually know Naruto would be able to sense negative emotions?

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
    Growing Old Gracefully is an Oxymoron ... Mostly Moron !

  10. #5990
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paulbee View Post
    I wonder, did Tobi actually know Naruto would be able to sense negative emotions?
    Yup.

    Spoiler!


    Here's to hoping Izanami really ends Kabuto so we can go back to Naruto vs. Tobi and see exactly why Tobi was so confident he could handle luring Naruto out.

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