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  1. #4681
    Sinners blessed hand Raf's Avatar
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    yes, yes you are
    Ona sanja da sam oprao ruke,
    Da sam obrijan, da sam lep.
    Toplo je na jastuku,
    u polusnu.

    Mirise na dorucak.
    Prijatan glas iz druge sobe se javlja,
    Kaze da je pocelo.
    Kaze da je pocelo.
    Idemo!

  2. #4682
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Immortal-JyNxX View Post
    Question. Am I crazy to now believe that the Jyuubi's big Sharingan looking eye was just due to the 6 Sage Genjutsu over it??
    took you long enough to realize that. LOL. Yes, it was a Rinnegan Tsukuyomi, the strongest form of Tsukuyomi (Mugen just means eternal). All Mangekyou jutsus are just the spritiual/yin or inton release of the rinnegan's heretic (7th or Gedou) path. Mokuton and other elemental kekkeigenkais would be the yoton (yang) release.

    Tsukuyomi is an inton release
    Amaterasu is a yoton release
    Susanoo is an inton release
    Izanami (4th) Mangekyou jutsu will be an onmyoton release
    Izanagi is an onmyoton release
    A bridge towards peace; the will of fire still endures!


    Rokudaime Hokage, Rokudaime Rikudou Sennin Uzumaki Naruto

  3. #4683
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    I never understood, why people were thinking that the Sharingan came from the Juubi :S :S

    - Of course it was Rikudo's Genjutsu being casted on the Juubi,.. probably the highest genjutsu form you can think off; Eternal T-Yomi. Rikudo used his spiritual energy for mind controlling him and his physical energy for surpressing his powers ( being his Jinchirikuu etc. Just like Mito, Kushina and Naruto were doing with the Kyuubi inside of them. )
    Last edited by Aga bomBa; 09-24-2010 at 07:29 PM.
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  4. #4684
    I yam what I yam
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    semi quick question here.

    1. Is it possible that when an unawoken sharigan is implanted into a Senju or Uzumaki, upon activation, you get a Rinnegan? (Is that crazy?!) - perhaps this is what Madara means by "giving Nagato the rinnegan".

    It kinda makes sense to me because you're essentially merging the two bloodlines.

    I was also thinking, if by some chance the above were true, then when you plant a rinnegan into an Uchiha, you get a sharingan/rinnegan combo -like how Madara's mask looks.

    Maybe this is obvious or already been cleared up or I need to pay more attention when reading, sorry. thnx
    =============================
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  5. #4685
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkin View Post
    semi quick question here.

    1. Is it possible that when an unawoken sharigan is implanted into a Senju or Uzumaki, upon activation, you get a Rinnegan? (Is that crazy?!) - perhaps this is what Madara means by "giving Nagato the rinnegan".

    It kinda makes sense to me because you're essentially merging the two bloodlines.

    I was also thinking, if by some chance the above were true, then when you plant a rinnegan into an Uchiha, you get a sharingan/rinnegan combo -like how Madara's mask looks.

    Maybe this is obvious or already been cleared up or I need to pay more attention when reading, sorry. thnx
    1. It hasn't really been cleared as of now what the f**k Madara did.
    2. So every answer you get will be assumptions, however logical.

    Let me give you my take on things. It's a cut/paste, I'm sick of typing for now. No1 listens anyways. :(

    Quote Originally Posted by Rokudaime Sennin
    Nagato was an uzumaki, he possessed the physical energies of Rikudou by being an uzumaki, he would gain the spiritual energies by either of two ways, if Madara gave him his whole spiritual energies leaving Madara weak, or if Nagato is Rikudou's soul, then the soul would come along with the spiritual energies. What Madara did was help Nagato awaken the rinnegan by creating the circumstances surround his life, the strife across Amegakure and the whole shinobi world.

    Just acquiring the physical and spiritual energies of Rikudou does not equate a rinnegan, it needs to be awakened depending on if there's a need across the shinobi world. Madara just guided things along and forced the hand of heaven to grant Nagato the rinnegan. Nagato being Rikudou's reincarnation could've awakened it anyways even if Madara wasn't involved directly. What Madara did most likely was follow an uzumaki survivor from the whirlpool country that he destroyed all the way to Amegakure and initiate his plan to awaken the rinnegan in that uzumaki child. Now where the spiritual energies come from is up for question, whether Madara gave Nagato his own or they were tagging along with Rikudou's soul which was reincarnated within Nagato in an uzumaki body thus giving him both the spiritual and physical energies of Rikudou, only having the need to awaken the rinnegan.

    There's no freaking eye transplants into babies or 5 year old kids. Madara either provided Nagato with the spiritual energies, or he was convinced somehow that Nagato was Rikudou's reincarnation, there's most likely a prophecy of some sorts. And Madara's task was to help Nagato awaken the rinnegan by making him suffer through his life and across his homeland Amegakure. Madara himself never gained the rinnegan, cause it is only bestowed upon noble souls. That's why Madara has had to grab it from Nagato's body. He does possess both the spiritual and physical energies to run that rinnegan now.

    And some people still don't understand that the rinnegan is the all encompassing doujutsu, the powers of the 7 paths stand above life and death, they are godly powers, they control each aspect of the cycle of life and death, each of the realms of samsara. What Mangekyou and mokuton jutsus are the yin/yang and onmyoton releases of the powers of the heretic path. They are the full life and death powers of the 7th path. Madara gaining the rinnegan can still use Izanagi, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo, cause they were rinnegan jutsus to begin with. The rinnegan performs them flawlessly with perfection, but there's a difference between them as depending on the darkness in the wielder's heart. A Rikudou's Amaterasu would've been bright yellow like the sun, meant to shed light upon the world, the elder son's and subsequent Mangekyou wielder's Amaterasu was black cause it was corrupted by darkness. The flames which reside in the celestial heavens as in the sun, amaterasu is a yang release btw, they were sent to hell where they became black. The rinnegan wielder controls all creation, each aspect of life and death.

    There is no retarded sharinnegan eye from the jyubi, it is only one all encompassing Rinnegan, the god's eye.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rokudaime Sennin
    So 3 scenarios as to how Nagato gained the spiritual energies, he already had the physical energies cause he was an uzumaki. Nagato's mother being an uzumaki after moving to amegakure after the destruction of whirlpool caused by Madara himself, she became pregnatn and then Madara gave most of his spiritual energies to baby Nagato via a fuuinjutsu transfer of some sort, much like how Itachi gave some of his powers to Naruto.

    Second option is that Madara played matchmaker and got Nagato's mother, an uzumaki to marry an uchiha without a sharingan awakened, (nagato's dad, actually if you look closely, he has an uncanny resemblance to Uchiha Fugaku, who was Itachi/Sasuke's dad). Just as Nagato = Naruto + Sasuke, Nagato's mother had a resemblance to Kushina, and his father had a resemblance to Fugaku. So Madara got them to marry and then proceeded to awaken the rinnegan in that child's life.

    Third option is that, and this is the one I'm leaning towards, that Nagato is Rikudou's soul reincarnated, and his soul would've already carried Rikudou's spiritual energies, and he was born into the uzumaki clan, thus he acquired the physical energies as well, and Madara discovered this somehow, as it may have been prophesized on the Rikudou's tablet. So Madara first destroyed the whirlpool to find the one survivor who would've been the Rikudou's reincarnation most likely, and then followed that family to the Amegakure village and behind the scenes created the wars which led to the awakening of the rinnegan.
    A bridge towards peace; the will of fire still endures!


    Rokudaime Hokage, Rokudaime Rikudou Sennin Uzumaki Naruto

  6. #4686
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokudaime Sennin ™ View Post
    1. It hasn't really been cleared as of now what the f**k Madara did.
    2. So every answer you get will be assumptions, however logical.

    Let me give you my take on things. It's a cut/paste, I'm sick of typing for now. No1 listens anyways. :(
    Wrong.. You meant; Just 1

    Quote Originally Posted by Aga bomBa View Post
    Yes, it does bro and let me explain my thoughts, why the Heavens choose Nagato.

    The Elder Brother's descendants, were already granted with spiritual energy / strenght of chakra, but the path that he had chosen, was the Darkness / hatred and that's why they're cursed. Rikudou Sennin chose his Younger Son as his successor, because he believed that Peace was needed for a better world. Rikudou's decission brought this eternal circle of hatred into the world, so the only way for solving / stopping this enteral hatred,.. was granting one of the younger brother's descendants with the Rinnegan. The descendants of the Younger Brother, had the strenght of HEART / Physical energy / Life- force and the best candidate for wielding such a heavenly Doujutsu, The Rinnegan.

    ( example; even when Nagato got mental fucked and thought that he could bring peace with destruction.. deep in his heart; he always knew that Love / Peace was the key for changing the world. Nagato simple lost himself after Yahiko's death and didn't trust Jiraiya's idealogy anymore. Later on; Naruto said to Madara, that Nagato isn't like you and Madara laughed, because he knew that from the start.. though he got suprised that Naruto had such a power, for turning people to the good side, after his mental manipulation. )
    Madara knew that nobody from his bloodline, could awaken the Rinnegan by nature. That's one of the reasons why he obtained Hashirama's powers, because the descendants of the Elder Son will never awaken the Rinnegan naturally or they'll never been granted by the Heavens.
    Madara's influences on the shinobi world, was the cause of someone awakening the Rinnegan.. and that's what he meant by; " I GAVE HIM " the Rinnegan. It's not that he literally GAVE THOSE EYES, to him.
    ( well, that's what I think.. )

    - but I feel the same as Rokudaime; only a few are listening :(
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  7. #4687
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    I highly doubt that it was merely a case of Madara providing the circumstances of Nagato awakening the Rinnegan. Madara insists that the Rinnegan eyes were his to begin with, if all he had done was provide the circumstances for Nagato to awaken them, which could have quite easily been caused by other people. Then that statement would be bogus. Madara seemed quite adament that the Rinnegan Nagato possessed was originally his. When Kabuto said you aquired some good eyes, Madara immediately states that they were his to begin with. That type of claim simply wouldn't make sense if it was merely a circumstantial acquasition and frankly it would just be bad writting if that turned out to be the case. In light of Madara's claim I am far more inclined to believe it was some type of transfer. What Itachi did to Sasuke with his Mangekyou and what he did to Naruto almost seems like it is related.

    I think that Madara had to have played a direct role in Nagato awakening the Rinnegan or his claims about it being his would just be absured. A direct eye transplant may seem like a bit much but if he didn't give Nagato something of his own directly Madara's claim would be totally invalade. That would be like him claiming that Sasuke's Mangekyou was his to begin with because he at one point set the events in motion that really did lead Sasuke to awakening it. If he really made the claim that such an indirect involvement leading to a result makes something his by nature, its just ridiculous.

  8. #4688
    Senior Member paulbee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blinkin View Post
    semi quick question here.

    1. Is it possible that when an unawoken sharigan is implanted into a Senju or Uzumaki, upon activation, you get a Rinnegan? (Is that crazy?!) - perhaps this is what Madara means by "giving Nagato the rinnegan".

    It kinda makes sense to me because you're essentially merging the two bloodlines.

    I was also thinking, if by some chance the above were true, then when you plant a rinnegan into an Uchiha, you get a sharingan/rinnegan combo -like how Madara's mask looks.

    Maybe this is obvious or already been cleared up or I need to pay more attention when reading, sorry. thnx
    For now I am going out on a limb (and I don't mind being wrong), and I am taking the literal interpretation that Madara Literally gave/implanted HIS OWN sharingan into Nagato.

    This will at least explain why Madara has not been seen with his Mangekyou or his Eternal Mangekyou.

    In my thinking Madara indeed creats a Rinnegan by taking Hashirama's power, but he finds the Rinnegan he created doesn't work as expected. He realizes that he needs to incubate it in someone with High Physical Chakra, a Senju or an Uzumaki.

    It could also be that Madara gave Nagato the eyes because He (Madara) did not want to be Emaciated by Gedou Mazou, so he uses a proxy...Nagato.

    So there you have it. Did Madara literally give Nagato his own eyes? Well we will find out sooner or later

    I am not perfect and I defy you to prove otherwise
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  9. #4689
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    You guys think alot deeper than I do. Impressive really. I was thinking much simpler.

    Swaping your Ms eyes for your bro's Ms eyes = Ems (well, basically). I think creating a rinnegan should be similar.

    Madara has a crap load of eyes and giving Nagato a pair means that the eyes are technically Madara's. So that explains why he said they were "his to begin with". Nagato's eyes looked normal before he "aquired" the rinnegan, so the eyes the Madara gave him must have been unawoken sharingan eyes - if you follow my logic. He gave them to Nagato, beacuse he's Senju related. So when those eyes awaken in an Uzumaki or Senju, instead of sharigan, you get rinnegan.

    I bet Madara's current eyes look like his mask, cause that's what happens when you put rinnegan eyes in an Uchiha.

    This seems simple, although, I wonder how many Uzumaki's Madara found and implanted various types of sharingan into.

    Perhaps I'm way off base with all this. I don't spend very much time thinking about the manga. I just really like to watch everything unfold and breeze thru a thread or two when I don't understand something. You guys are smart. Thanks for your replies.

  10. #4690
    Elder Brother EliteKage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rokudaime Sennin ™ View Post
    took you long enough to realize that. LOL. Yes, it was a Rinnegan Tsukuyomi, the strongest form of Tsukuyomi (Mugen just means eternal). All Mangekyou jutsus are just the spritiual/yin or inton release of the rinnegan's heretic (7th or Gedou) path. Mokuton and other elemental kekkeigenkais would be the yoton (yang) release.

    Tsukuyomi is an inton release
    Amaterasu is a yoton release
    Susanoo is an inton release
    Izanami (4th) Mangekyou jutsu will be an onmyoton release
    Izanagi is an onmyoton release
    If the rinnegan could use susanoo, tskuyomi, and amaterasu, how come Nagato never used it?

    It also wouldnt make sense to say amaterasu is a yang release, because the uchiha never inherited any powerful physical energies from the original sage.

    By the way, wtf is izanami?

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