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  • No.

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  • Yes?

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  • Maybe

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  1. #4611
    Senior Member Afro Thunda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FireFistLuffy View Post
    Alright thanks, but what those IIRC stand for?
    IIRC = If I Remember Correctly

    @Stev3child

    Nah, that couldn't be done. Those bodies summoned by Edo Tensei are just clumps of dirt surrounding the sacrificed body. So, the eyes produced by Edo Tensei would be dirt as well. That would cause a monumental problem if you transplanted those eyes then canceled the technique.....

  2. #4612
    Senior Member FenixMarco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by .KiLLeR. View Post
    I also started reading naruto after the time skip. And I think the chapter after the time skip is chapter 245 .
    Thanks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Afro Thunda View Post
    IIRC = If I Remember Correctly
    That's a awesomee abbv. Thanks for answering.

  3. #4613
    Elder Brother EliteKage's Avatar
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    It was stated in the uchiha base that the MS is required to control the demon fox and we saw evidence of this when Madara controlled the fox against Hashirama.

    However, why the hell was be able to control the demon fox with just the regular sharingan in the konoha kyuubi attack?

  4. #4614
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EliteKage View Post
    It was stated in the uchiha base that the MS is required to control the demon fox and we saw evidence of this when Madara controlled the fox against Hashirama.

    However, why the hell was be able to control the demon fox with just the regular sharingan in the konoha kyuubi attack?
    There's nothing in any chapter or databook that states you must have MS activated during the control of kyuubi. The only thing it states is, you must unlock the power of the ms to control the kyuubi, but it has never been stated that it has to be activated @ the moment when you're trying to control the kyuubi?

    Madara does it with normal sharingan, but that doesn't mean that anyone with the Sharingan can do it.. If that was the case, then the rest of the clan probably would have done it a long time ago.
    That's why you need to be unique siblings for achieving such power- up as Mangekyou Sharingan, and there were a few who achieved that. I don't know if you need chakra more sinister then the Kyuubi's.. but we already know that Madara and Sasuke has that kind of chakra.
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  5. #4615
    六代目火影仙人 Rokudaime Sennin ™'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by O-E-M View Post
    do u guys think the rinnegan is like the avatar(the last air bender). when the wilder dies it is awaken in another country/village if it is ever awaken? if kishi do something like that will naruto awaken it? highly unlikely but still a thought
    The rinnegan is awakened when the heavens decide it is needed, meaning in times of strife and turmoil across the shinobi world. Naruto may awaken it only temporarily due to Itachi's residual spiritual energies residing inside him, just enough to get the job done, meaning not even for 10-15 minutes, just to take care of the jyubi for good. And yes, it is like Avatar, that's how reincarnations work. Nagato is Rikudou's reincarnation, so he was the true wielder since he possessed both the powerful energies of Rikudou, however Naruto having both those energies for a short time, him being the true heir of Rikudou, and there's a huge need for it, meaning the jyubi, he may awaken the rinnegan for a short period. It will die out soon as Itachi's energies fade away. Basically depends on which way Kishi is going to turn the plot, concerning the final fight. The fight will be basically Rikudou VS Jyubi version two. Either a redeemed Sasuke + Naruto who equal Rikudou VS the jyubi, or Naruto with rinnegan VS the jyubi. Both are extremely likely scenarios, depends on the plot, we shall see.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliteKage View Post
    It was stated in the uchiha base that the MS is required to control the demon fox and we saw evidence of this when Madara controlled the fox against Hashirama.

    However, why the hell was be able to control the demon fox with just the regular sharingan in the konoha kyuubi attack?
    Adding to what Aga said, Cause once the MS is unlocked, that's when they retain the ability to control the kyubi forever, no matter if they use MS or sharingan. If their spiritual energies are strong enough to overcome the kyubi's mind, then they can control the beast with genjutsu. And you also gotta factor in the left eye, the Tsukuyomi eye might be missing or sealed. So Tobi instead of using a Tsukuyomi, the preferable genjutsu for kyubi control, since it is the strongest one, he had to rely on normal sharingan genjutsu. And this may mean that he is having to use up more chakra (meaning more spiritual energies) to retain the same level of control over the kyubi than if he had used the Tsukuyomi, thus his window of control over the kyubi would be reduced even further. Using Tsukuyomi may have given him longer time limit for control than using sharingan genjutsu cause it would be a more effective genjutsu control. Altho initially the Tsukuyomi would cost more chakra to initiate control over the kyubi, to maintain that control should require less since the Tsukuyomi's effects are more powerful and last longer. But once the ability to control the kyubi with the Mangekyou is unlocked, it seems for now that they can use even sharingan genjutsu for that control if they are strong enough wielder.

    So this proves 2 things. First is that Tobi is indeed an uchiha with very strong spiritual energies. Second is that, even if he had used a replacement eye, meaning a normal sharingan, he must've had unlocked the power to control the kyubi at one point in his life, meaning he must've had Mangekyou during some point in his life. It can't just be an outsider who would've implanted a sharingan eye into him and started running around controlling kyubi and manipulating every1.

    This means that there's only two people who are viable candidates for Tobi's identity, Uchiha Madara and Uchiha Izuna. They both had strong spiritual energies since they were the first to awaken the Mangekyou, and even after losing his eyes to his brother, had Izuna transplanted a normal random sharingan into his socket, he still would've retained some essence of the Mangekyou, meaning the ability to have genjutsu control over the kyubi.

    So just Tobi just demonstrating that he was controlling the kyubi, proved that he was indeed an uchiha, he had really strong spiritual energies, and he had Mangekyou at one point in his life, so that narrows it down to only two possibilities, Izuna and Madara. Of course there's also the Elder brother option which opened up due to the recent chapter. Because of the 6th coffin, I'm leaning more towards Tobi being Izuna tho, he takes his brothers name cause it's feared throughout the world, and then wants revenge for his brother at first, but then moves onto bigger goals, to prove that the uchiha legacy of peace through power was indeed the right one.

    Of course, there's always the option that Tobi, whether he is Madara or Izuna, still have the Mangekyou, altho seems unlikely at this point. It may be that transplanting a regular shariingan eye into his socket may have given him a dimensional Mangekyou jutsu, much like Kakashi's. But then again we don't see any Mangekyou design when Tobi uses the time/space jutsu, however he confirmed that it has to do with uchiha eye power if that wasn't obvious already. Seems like a Mangekyou jutsu to me. And we never really saw Tobi's eye after he started to initiate genjutsu over the kyubi. The bijuu would always show the 3 tomoes, however the wielder meaning Tobi, still could've had his eyes changed to Mangekyou. And the time/space jutsu we see could still change his eyes to Mangekyou in the nick of time, however we only see it before it begins to change. I just don't know anymore, there's so many endless possibilities, still have to factor in the wtf left eye.

    The jist of it is basically that one has to unlock the Mangekyou to control the kyubi, however doesn't have to use it after that to control the beast. Of course a normal sharingan genjutsu would need strong spiritual energies to overcome the kyubi, and one would need strong spiritual energies to unlock the Mangekyou to begin with. So I'm not sure how much level of control Sasuke before he attained the Mangekyou would've had on the kyubi, I would surmise, definitely a little influence, since we did see him suppressing the kyubi's bubbly yang chakra. Maybe a pre Mangekyou, genjutsu specialist Itachi would've fared better control over the kyubi with just a sharingan genjutsu, but then again his sharingan potential and spiritual energies weren't as strong as Sasuke. Ok, I'm gonna stop here before I make the explanation too complicated, I don't know if you'll understand what I wrote, I don't think even I understand what I wrote, LOL. But basically we won't know shit (the truth) till we find out wtf is up with his left eye.


    Anyways, Tobi does have pretty good genjutsu skills. We know he used em on yagura, wonder how that worked, how long do you think he would've controlled yagura for, meaning 24/7 or in intervals? He couldn't use genjutsu on Minato cause he was already using it for controlling the kyubi, however why didn't he use it on Konan or is that still upcoming maybe?

    And I have a few konan related questions: The exploding tags, wtf are they made of, is it explosive material, or just paper imbued with chakra that explodes? I'm not sure if I remember the correct explanation for it. Also since paper is made of wood, would it be fair to say that Konan's two elements are earth and water. I don't see her being raiton or katon for sure, and don't think she's fuuton either, I mean Nagato was the wind beneath her wings, literally and metaphorically speaking (when he used his fuuton to push her paper shurikens faster to take down Jiraiya's kagebunshin).

    I mean it does make sense, her being from Amegakure, turning a sea of water into paper, her affinity should be water (and earth). And that would explain why rain has no effect on her paper jutsus. Only chakra imbued suiton would affect the paper as it would make the paper more heavy, as it's some1 else's chakra that she can't control herself, however that doesn't matter with regular water/rain as she is suiton herself, and her paper is made of suiton and doton (the same raw materials used for mokuton), so she can control both of those properties, of the paper and of the suiton.

    Also is Konan pretty powerful in genjutsu herself? The genjutsu used on the Rain ninja providing the bodies (the second animal path) seemed to be large paper barriers or something. I thought it was solid doors at first but now it seems like a large sea of paper. Or was that Nagato's doing? However konan was the one who interacted with that rain ninja directly, so did she place the genjutsu on him?

    So basically what I'm asking is, can we say for sure that konan's elements are doton and suiton (used to make the paper), and was she the one responsible for the genjutsu used on the rain ninja, and also why hasn't Tobi used his genjutsu on her, and if he will in the next chapter, would it still have the same chance of working depending on if she is or not a genjutsu specialist herself.
    Last edited by Rokudaime Sennin ™; 09-13-2010 at 01:15 AM.
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  6. #4616
    Senior Member rinnebadass's Avatar
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    where do you guys saw an entire ocean of paper? i saw 2 "walls" of paper.

  7. #4617
    Senior Member kuroihikari's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    where do you guys saw an entire ocean of paper? i saw 2 "walls" of paper.
    It's what's written on the panel.

  8. #4618
    Appearance of Darkness Aga bomBa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    where do you guys saw an entire ocean of paper? i saw 2 "walls" of paper.
    That's what confused me also in the beginning.. but I think that she SPLIT the ocean with here papers, for sealing Madara away.

    - Funny thing though; normally when a Akatsuki member dies, they loses their coat and we've already saw her flashback.. it's very possible that she ain't gonna die. She has to represent Rain Village during the 4th Ninja War and if she has that much chakra for splitting or creating an ocean out of paper, then she's could also be a bunshin ?!??! [ Naah, I take that back.. ]
    Last edited by Aga bomBa; 09-13-2010 at 05:13 PM.
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  9. #4619
    Yesss... Rlinfamous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rinnebadass View Post
    where do you guys saw an entire ocean of paper? i saw 2 "walls" of paper.
    Whether she created an ocean out of paper or split the ocean with paper, it's still the largest jutsu we've seen in the series, barring Chibaku Tensei, and she's not known for her high chakra. Whether or not she's Jiraiya's student is irrelevant, the fact is she shouldn't be able to perform a jutsu that large based on what we know about her, and that's what people are complaining about/commenting on when they refer to her "ocean of paper."

    And yes, it's what's written on the panel. Those things always exaggerate, but who cares. Why should Naruto, with his markedly high chakra reserves, need to go Sage Mode to throw a single Rasenshuriken, while Konan can do shit like this? It no make sense.

  10. #4620
    I'll be waiting, be sure. Yoru's Avatar
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    Who tells you Konan doesen't posses high chakras level? If kishi didn't mention it before, he does now, by showing us this jutsu.

    or...

    I think that maybe paper manipulation doesen't require strong chakra. It seems rather like a kekkei genkai.
    ALso sasuke, who's not supposed to have such big chakra amount , can spam his kekkei genkai jutsus without losing much chakra: he used susanoo and amaterasu so many times and nonstop.
    Maybe konan's the same: she possesses her kekkei genkai which is a characteristic of her family and doesen't take much chakra to perform paper jutsus.
    That's my opinion.

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